Still not hailing D-Cab
Once again, Daniel Cabrera's velocity was down last night. His fastball stayed in the 90-91 mph range, rather than tickling the upper 90s.
Radar readings aren't the most important thing for a pitcher, but it's curious that he's not throwing as hard. It would be one thing if he was painting the corners and finding better command by taking a little something off his fastball, but that's not the case.
Cabrera has posted a 7.34 ERA since the break. I thought he had turned the corner this season, but he smacked into another wall.
Or I could say that he saw a light at the end of the tunnel and it was an oncoming train. Either way, you get the point.
Cabrera only had a few groundball outs last night, another disturbing trend of late.
So what are the Orioles going to do with this guy? Keep running him out there every five days and continue to hope that he finally gets it all figured out?
That'll be the path taken for the rest of this season. It's not like manager Dave Trembley has any other choices. He's had enough difficulty trying to find five capable starters for his rotation. He can't remove Cabrera and compound his troubles.
"I don't know who else we're going to bring in," Trembley said. "Goodness sakes, that would be really reaching for straws there."
Too bad Cabrera still hasn't reached his potential. At what point do the Orioles surrender hope that he ever will?
He turned the corner, then when back to get his keys. He's a fixture in the rotation the rest of this season. Next year we have Bergeson, Tillman, Penn, Olsen, Burres, Hernandez, Patton, Waters and Liz all competing with Cabrera for four rotation slots(or three if we sign a free agent starter which is likely). If he doesn't show improvement by the end of spring training next year, we may cut our losses. Until then, we 'gulp' need him. That hurt to write.
Can we please bring up Wieters, Hernandez isn't even running out ground balls anymore. The guy's a slug with zero passion for the game.
The O's are long overdo for trying Cabrera out in the bullpen in a late-inning role. There are countless examples of O's pitchers in their history that they stubbornly kept throwing out there every 5th day only to suffer with never-ending mediocrity. A couple of fairly recent examples are Jose Mesa and Arthur Rhodes. Both had great "raw" stuff but were primarily two-pitch pitchers. The O's gave up on both, only to watch both go on to solid above-average careers as relievers with other teams. Honestly, what do the O's have to lose at this point in trying it to see if he could be more effective? (I always thought they should have done the same with Ponson, though with his head problems, who knows how that would have turned out.)
I have been pretty negative of DCab and it's with good reason I believe. You can't run a business filled with people who have "potential" but don't produce. Results and numbers are the bottom line and this guy has never done anything. If we get rid of him and he suddenly turns into nolan ryan, well then thats just the way it worked out. But you can't keep putting this guy out there when he hasn't done anything to justify a spot in the starting line up. With all the young talen that we have in the farm systen now, DCab needs to go, no reason for him to hold up someone who actually might turn out to be something.
I'm not sure what choice the Orioles really have now but to keep D-Cab. Until the day comes when he is keeping superior prospects from getting regular work, it seems better to keep him and hope that something good comes out of him versus trading him for nothing of value (since we know he has no trade value).
Roch, where do you sit in the press box? A couple of my friends were at the game last night and we went looking for you, but couldn't find you. Then an usher shooed us way.
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Lower press box (the upper is radio/tv). I moved to the second row, behind home plate. Directly behind The Sun guys, so I can look down on them - as I've always done, no matter where I sat. - Roch
Well, I sure hope that Chris Waters can get into the same rhythm tonight that he had in his initial start. We need him to pick up for the shortcomings of D-Cab. But, should he not fair well, if you reach for a crack about needing some kind of bridge over troubled Waters, I'm going to be in a real Gar-funk-el. OK, enough for a Wednesday morning. You can wipe up the spit-out coffee now.
I say keep him in the rotation until some of the pitchers at Bowie are ready.
If the Orioles haven't already surrendered hope that Cabrera will figure "it" out at some point, then they are dellussional. If they are satisfied with getting innings out of him and don't care about losing every 5th day, then by all means, make him a fixture in the rotation for years to come. Every time his name shows up as the starting pitcher I throw up in my mouth a little.
Roch, at some point we may have to except that it isn't the players' fault they don't reach their potential but rather the organization not having a clue how to bring that potential out. Either way, I'm doomed to another year of looking ahead to next year's spring training and cursing the Ravens QB situation. Does anyone else find the irony that a city known for the legendary Johnny U and for producing four 20-game winners in a season can't find a starting QB or starting pitching?
I really think the Orioles (Trembley and MacPhail) will need to seriously look at the options they have in the off-season and determine if they can still hold onto Daniel Cabrera. He has been in the majors for 5 years and hasn't even done anything except lead the league in walks, hit batters, and in the middle for runs allowed.
I still remember his first year with the Orioles. He was just a thrower, doing 95-98 mph with his fastball. That year, he was actually a good pitcher. But then when he had to find other pitches to add, he just seemed like he didn't want to do it, and just began his downward spiral from there. If the Orioles had to do it all over again, I would think they would let him be a reliever, and just go to where he was, just throwing 95-98 mph fastballs with a hard slider. He could do the 7th inning or whatever.
But if they still want him to be a starter, they need to seriously look at whether they can continue with Cabrera being a starter, because he hasn't excelled at being a starter from year 2 to year 5. I think there are many reasons why he hasn't been the starter we all hoped he would be, and one of these reasons may be that he's always been the number two pitcher where he should be at least number 4 in the rotation. The Orioles have no choice but to just run him out in that number two spot and just hope he can finally find his way and get rolling in the right direction.
If I were the manager or GM, I would demand that Kranitz work with Cabrera all the time, from fielding his position (and make him stop flinching when a ball gets near him) to getting his velocity up with commanding his pitches better. If Cabrera can't improve these things this year, I would have to consider putting him in the bullpen for next year or put him lower in the rotation while we try to pursue a free agent pitcher.
Waiting for him to figure it out is on par with waiting for fusion energy. It may happen, but I'll be dead by then.
Bring up some of the young guys.
I think that when the Orioles have more viable options for the starting rotation they should strongly consider moving Daniel to the bullpen and seeing if he can find success there. If his velocity loss is a conscious decision rather than an injury creeping on, then let's try him in a situation where he can come in and the only pressure he has to deal with is getting three outs in that inning and nothing else. Having only two pitches won't hinder him nearly as much out of the pen as it does in the starting rotation.
The whole thing is super frustrating for everyone...Daniel included, I'm sure.
Too bad Cabrera still hasn't reached his potential. At what point do the Orioles surrender hope that he ever will?
sooner rather than later.....
Also, from an earlier blog entry, about Ben Sheets and other free agent pitchers....
Clearly our rotation is just in shambles right now with only one pitcher performing efficiently. So, who would you think the Orioles could pursue for free agent pitchers, Roch? In the off-season, of course.
I would love for us to get in the race for C.C., because he's everything we really need. A true ace. He can do complete games (5 CG in 8 games with Brewers). He can strike out people and doesn't walk batters as much. He hasn't hit a batter, I believe. Another option would be Ben Sheets, who hasn't gotten the recognition he really deserves. He's kinda a quiet pitcher, but has racked up strikeouts and wins in his career. Sheets would be a good fit for us as well. He probably would be cheaper than C.C. would be.
Who else am I missing? A.J. Burnett? Whatever we're gonna do in the off-season, I would think our real priorities would have to be:
1. Find a number one/two pitcher
2. Find a middle of the order batter (Teixera?)
3. Find better reserves (Not Payton, Millar, or Hernandez or anybody like them)
This raises another question. Who are we grooming along for next year? I think at pitching we need "deep depth" and I see Daniel as a 5th starter at best in 2009.
Roch, assuming we don't acquire anyone new in the offseason (a big assumption) who, other than Guthrie, do you foresee as the starting rotation when camp breaks next year?
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Hmmm...it's pretty early to make that projection. For now, I guess you pencil in Guthrie and Cabrera, and toss Albers, Patton (assuming he's healthy), Liz, Olson and Penn into the pile. Waters and Burres, too. Bergesen deserves a look, though keep in mind that he began this season at Single-A Frederick. Too soon for Chris Tillman, David Hernandez and Jake Arrieta. You certainly can expect the club to sign a veteran - though not Steve Trachsel - who can eat up innings and, hey, maybe even win a few games. - Roch
Compare DCab to 4th or 5th starters around the league and he's an acceptable member of the rotation. As a second starter, he clearly is not. Unfortunately, in taking a step forward in the effort to rebuild (e.g. trading Bedard), we've taken a step backwards in having major-league-ready starting pitchers. It's hard to bide our time waiting for the young guys to be ready, especially when facing the AL East much of the time, but it's one of the pangs of rebuilding. I wouldn't break the bank to keep DCab long term, but he's not a bad back-of-the-rotation guy.
I say give up hope now. If he figures it out for another team, fine, we'll have to deal with it.
Too bad Cabrera still hasn't reached his potential. At what point do the Orioles surrender hope that he ever will?
Sometime last year would be my guess.
Seriously though, it seems that Cabrera is like the Kyle Boller of the O's pitching staff. He's had too many chances and is too inconsistant. Sure, at times he'll pitch "lights out", but then he'll go out in his next start and give up 7 runs in 2 innings of work--and he's had enough time to work these things out, in my opinion.
Time to give him a "change of scenery" in the off season. Enough already of his inconsistancy. He can blossom, if he ever does, somewhere else as long we can get an experienced start somewhere to replace him in the rotation. Hard to go into next season with Guthrie and the rest being Olson, Liz and/or more rookies (Bergeson, Tillman, Arrieta or Hernandez), regardless of how good they may be, if you want to be competitive again next year.
Maybe we could move him this winter in a package deal for a shortstop. Someone hopefully would take him on as an innings eater and the chance the light may finally come on and stay on.
Matt Wieters is one of five candidates for the USA Today Minor league Player of the Year. You can vote for him at www.usatoday.com.
It's time to give up on Daniel Cabrera! For five years we all have waited ---- it ain't happening. He has actually been amazingly consistent for those five years. His WHIP is an unbelievable 1.54 - not counting his every year league leading HBP's. His 5 year era is 4.99 (5.00,4.52,4.74,5.55,4.98). He can't field or hold runners on, he has never approached putting a ball in play when he plays the NL. He is a failed experiment and an embarrassment for a major league team to trot out every 5th day. Yes, finish the season with him but under no circumstances should we trick ourselves into believing that next year will be different.
i think we need to keep him no matter the frustrations...he eats a ton of innings, doesn't get hurt and will occasionally pitch those gems.
A wise man once told me that "potential" is just a French word for "ain't done nothin' yet".
Last night we watched potential vs. here and now.
I thought it was funny that the matchup was between the #1 and #2 BB leaders in the league. Difference between the two --- 2.77 vs. 4.98 ERA. Sheesh...
Roch anyone ask Trembley about Coco's 3 ball walk?
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No, and he mentioned it as he was leaving the interview room. Most of us didn't notice it at the time. - Roch
It's time to give up on Daniel Cabrera! For five years we all have waited ---- it ain't happening. He has actually been amazingly consistent for those five years. His WHIP is an unbelievable 1.54 - not counting his every year league leading HBP's. His 5 year era is 4.99 (5.00,4.52,4.74,5.55,4.98). He can't field or hold runners on, he has never approached putting a ball in play when he plays the NL. He is a failed experiment and an embarrassment for a major league team to trot out every 5th day. Yes, finish the season with him but under no circumstances should we trick ourselves into believing that next year will be different.
look down on the sun guys? ouch!
As much as I agree with the D cab frustration.. its pointless to act like there are other options for the future. Keep him around to eat innings while the young guys develop. He is perfect for the orioles plan. He can pitch late into games (present), and fans wont get upset when he is let go once the young arms are up (future).
Other than the Rays, how many teams in our division have five starters who have outperformed Daniel Cabrera this year? Answer--none. And, every one of those teams has a winning record. I'm not saying the guy is great, but I am saying it's time to lower the expectations and accept him as a solid 4th or 5th starter.
D-Cab is 27. He hasnt reached his potential yet and he wont. He would have by now if he had any potential. I am beginning to think D-Cab never had potential but the upper level management saw a big tall guy from the carribean and were hoping for a miracle. He just awful to watch. He cant even go 5 innings! How can it be justified to keep putting him out there? Arrietta from Frederick would do a better job. Its hard to not break things in my house watching D-cab anymore.
How can you even think about moving a pitcher to a 'late-inning' role when he can't throw strikes or field his position? Late inning relievers cannot afford to give up walks and have to be able to make plays.
Until Cabrera is blocking someone better from the rotation keep him right where he is.
Cabrera should be allowed to compete for a rotation slot next season, but it should not be handed to him. Of people currently in the organization, only Guthrie should be a lock going into spring training.
Beyond this, the team needs to sign a proven free agent whose presence will shore up the rest of the rotation. Obviously getting a true ace like Sabbathia or Sheets would be the best, but a solid middle-of-the rotation guy in the mold of a Ted Lily or an Ervin Santana would also have a major impact. But as the season currently stands, we only have one true big-leaguer in our rotation and that's Guthrie.
Dylan, you are dreaming. The O's are not going to pony up the kind of money it would take for Sabathia or Sheets, nor should they. We will and should try to develop someone (or two or three) we already have into a Sabathia or Sheets, while continuing to develop a nucleus of good young position players into a strong every day lineup. Neither of those guys makes us a contended next year, their cost will be enormous and pitchers are fragile. The road is littered with big name free agent starters who land big contracts and never contribute again--Zito, Hampton, Mulder, Pavano. And, Sheets is already 30.
The O's will likely not sign a Sabathia, esp Sabathia himself. Sure he's 8-0 since going to the Brewers, but they're running him out there banking on 9 innings. They also know they have no chance in hell to re-sign him beyond this season, so what do they care how quickly they wear him out? When he shows burnout in/leading up to the post season with them (just like last year with CLE), it won't be a surprise. And does someone who is just waiting for an injury really warrant the contract he is going to command? (Carl Pavano not up for discussion.) He/his agent want 7yrs. I don't see the O's ponying up that kind of cash for that type of term.
What do I know, I went to public school in Florida. We don't do math down there very well.