This and that
Today's favorite headline: "Uninvited Sea Lion Slips Aboard Boat, Won't Leave"
First Brett Favre, now Barry Sanders.
Actually, Favre had the good sense to "inform" the Packers that it's not a good idea to have him in camp.
Favre also informed the Packers that it's not a good idea to include a toaster among your bath toys.
When the Orioles decide to pinpoint the moment that they regained their old status as yearly playoff contenders, they can point to the 2000 draft.
Lou Montanez: Third overall pick. Chris Waters: Fifth-round pick.
OK, seriously, these guys might turn out to be useful. They sure deserve a look in 2008, when the Orioles are supposed to be...dare I say it?...rebuilding.
Maybe Waters becomes a fixture in the rotation. Or maybe he becomes what Brian Burres should be - a left-handed long reliever with starter tendencies.
Or perhaps his 15 minutes are up. We don't really know. But it'll be fun to find out.
So what should the Orioles do with Adam Jones? I'm going to play doctor - and it's been a while, and a few neighborhood girls ago, since I've done so - and say he should be shut down. And that's without knowing the extent of this fracture.
He's young, he's an integral part of the rebuilding process, it's August and the Orioles aren't challenging for the wild card. Let him heal completely and don't push him.
It sure does appear that, at the most, the Orioles could get a week or two out of him at the end of the season. Why bother? To pad his stats?
We know that Jones can and should be a superstar in this league. MLB.com's Lyle Spencer, who covers the Angels, raved about him yesterday on The Anita Marks Show, saying there's no way he would have traded Jones if he was making the decisions for the Mariners - and Spencer probably would have done a better job.
I just don't see the point in taking any risks with Jones, even if he proves to be a fast healer.
Your thoughts?
There is no reason to rush him at all. Roch have you heard about about Jones' hip? I have on good authority that he has a similar problem to what Hoiles had, and it would explain how the O's were able to get so much for Bedard. With that said, I hope they get a lot out of him, but it makes sense not to push him and risk aggravating the hip.
Uh, Roch, Chris Waters wasn't an O's draft pick.
Better bring that Sunpaper research staff with you to MASN if you're going to make mistakes like that! lol
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Neither guy was an O's draft pick. Was just a joke that they both came from that draft. Maybe I was a little too suble. - Roch
absolutely. SHut him down. those little bones in the foot are tricky. Nothing to gain but pain.
Of course if the broken bone keeps him from playing center field, maybe he can do a reverse Loewen and take up pitching?
Way to go, Chris! He definitely deserves a few more chances to show what he's capable of doing...currently the rotation and bullpen are both still pretty wide open for next season. After nine years in the minors this is his chance and if he keeps being aggressive in the zone, like he was last night, he may just find himself a permanant spot on the staff somewhere. Only time will tell.
As far as Jones goes, it's a fracture to the foot. I think, for the most part, those type injuries are far less "should we or shouldn't we" than tendon tears or muscle pulls. If it heals and he's cleared, why shouldn't he be allowed to play for the last couple of weeks? I understand the argument the other way as well, but sometimes I think it means more mentally to the player regardless of whether the numbers mean anything to the team's chances or not. Take Guthrie and his refusal to let an oblique strain end his season last year.
Good Morning Roch,
I agree with you completely on shutting down Adam for the rest of the season. No sense in having him come back and reinjure it and have it turn into someone that will affect him for years to come.
Use the roster spot to try out some of the other guys. Bring up Nolan Reimold in September and give him some PT. Bring up Fio and give him some time in CF.
JR
I liked that Lou was let into the game last night, filling in for Luke in left.
"Favre also informed the Packers that it's not a good idea to include a toaster among your bath toys."
Thanks, Roch, that was good for a morning LOL!
I tend to agree with you on Adam Jones. If he's healed closer to the 4 week timeframe and not the 6, then maybe you bring him back -- giving him about a month to play. But if there's any pain or uncertainty at that point, definitely should shut him down.
I watched the first 3 innings, then fell asleep. I woke up in the ninth, Sherrill pitching & saw the score.... I was stunned but it also woke me up good. I knew I had missed a special story. They should have started Montanez as well, he probably would have hit for the cycle....
I agree, Waters should have been allowed to try & finish. However, that wasn't Waters, that was a young version of Tom Glavine. He reminded me of him a lot. Let's hope he shows up again & again and....
Send Burres a tape of how he pitched too. Make Penn watch it as well.
A ONE hitter, a Guerrero base hit too, that's just nuts... WAY TO GO Waters. His grin was priceless wasn't it? Nice of Huff to escort him out of the dugout & tell him to flip the cap too.
Those guys in GB are idiots. Favre or Rodgers????? What has Rodgers ever done?
I'd love to see Favre run out onto Lambeau Field in a purple uniform opening day, that would serve them right, but it will never happen. Maybe Tampa trades for him, then immediately trades him to Minnesota to stick it to GB? They do that even more so Favre gets to play where he would like to play. He has earned that much hasn't he?
Favre to Tampa though isn't without some parallels.... How about Unitas to SD? That still makes me sick.... or Montana in a Chiefs uniform?
Two words on A Jones fractured ankle & what they should do... Adam Loewen.
I am not so sure he is a future superstar though Roch. I think you are getting a bit overboard... :-) A good OFer yes, but a superstar?
Wait until the scouting report comes out on Waters. That will be the real test.
Favre Business = Boring. It's every 5 seconds. On every sports channel.
Well, the Mariners have Jeremy Reed in centerfield. I guess they felt Jones was expendable or not ready yet.
I agree, but only if they start Montanez in center every day. We already know what Payton can or can't do. Let's see what Montanez can do every day. BTW - you're right on the money about a possible crowd in the outfield next year. Jones, Markakis, Scott, Montanez and Reimold. You have to DH Scott and move Huff to 1st/3rd.
Great post, Roch. The Jones question is easy. Shut him down and let him review the things he has done right and what he needs to do to keep progressing. He proved that he is a great fielder and a hitter with the ability to be dangerous at this level. That's a great 2008.
Waters was excellent. I think we need to be catious about proclaiming him anything other than a guy who made a great start against a tough Angels team. Should we ignore that he lost twice as many games as he won in the IL with a 5.70 ERA? However, he did something that a pitching coach could never do. He showed the staff that throwing strikes adn working fast is a pretty good philosophy. Basically, he looks like Burres with better control. The league will get a read on him, but I will admit that my prediction was WAY off tonight-- kudos to Waters! Love his demeanor as well.
You're probably right about Jones. Which is a shame, because he is hands down the most fun player to watch on this team (With your man Guth being a close second).
If they shut him down will he play winter ball again? What is the team's protocol on our young stud outfielder? He is still 22 and could use the innings; but I'm sure we would like to play it safe too.
I thought the same thing last night when my wife read me the headline "Jones sidelined with fractured foot" or something. That they should shut him down so he can play in the Arizona fall league or the Caribbean and get ready to come back strong next year.
Sadly this should end his season. Payton can be a productive outfielder (though I am sighing typing that), Scott needs to play everyday anyway. The team may win 75 games (I hope 82 though), but that doesn't compete for anything but the 15th pick in the draft.
To be safe, I would agree that Jones should sit out the reminder of the season. What a shame though. The Orioles seem to cursed. If you could choose the one Oriole who you would not want to see their season ended by injury, Who would that be? My choice - Adam Jones.
In light of the Joba Chamberlain shoulder problems, does anyone here still think we should move James Johnson into the rotation this season?
I agree don't take any chances, but it really depends on the severity of the break. Guys come back from broken bones all the time and supposedly when they heal the bone fuses and is even stronger than before the break. It's not like Loewen's elbow. That said, there is no reason to take any chances. If shutting him down the rest of the way helps his long-term health, then do it.
I was disappointed that Sweet Lou didn't get a start last night. I sure hope he does today. It would be a shame to pull that guy out of the playoff and Triple Crown race at AA, only to have him sit on the bench here. I know we need a fourth outfielder, but Tike Redman, Chris Roberson or Luis Terrero could sit just as well as Sweet Lou.
I agree, shut hum down.
If nothing else, this will give us the opportunity to do two things:
1. Give Jay Payton more playing time in August so that he can be dealt for something marginally useful.
2. Give a few outfield auditions after the September call-ups. And with our star centerfielder out for the season, we can do that guilt-free.
Just a thought.
thank you for the RSS feed!
=]
Agreed. Jones is way to valuable. If he needs to take the rest of the season off to heal I have no problem with that. Next year could be a huge year for him. Payton has been effective off the bench and if he gets some regular time he could really start to produce. It will also be nice to see Montanez get some innings in the bigs.
My thoughts, Roch?
Well, in a perfect world, I would want Adam Jones patrolling center. But alas, it's not that, so I would shut him down for the rest of the season. Let him be with his teammates, and joke around, watching the team reel off wins.
My other thought(s) is Chris Waters. He just did what I've been hoping for the other starters to do: change speeds, make accurate pitches, and field your position. And then, of course, my next thought is to watch Lo u Montanez have a 4 for 5 game in his debut.
Hope to see him make his debut this afternoon.
Very easy to play AM from this seat.
Shut down Jones. No reason to play him again and have him "go Loewen" on the O's. Play Montanez and rest Scott's Achilles. Call up Penn before he gets hurt again and put him in Sarfate's spot. See what he has this time around. Then, pull Cabrera if he continue his downtrun and let Bergeson give it a try. Check out some prospects besides Matusz and Tillman (maybe Albers if he successfully rehabs)for rotation or bullpen spots in 09.
Maybe Waters will be the second coming of Jamie Moyer, a late bloomer. He seems to know how to pitch and has the poise that Cabrera should have by now but doesn't. If nothing else, he could be a replacement for Walker in the pen and is light years better than Burris (based on only 1 start of course). TBD
My thoughts? I can't get this piece of popcorn dislodged from inbetween my teeth. Don't be a blooter! Stay perspicacious...
Roch,
I completely agree. I know Trembley said he brings a lot of energy to teh team, but let's remember the other motto this year..."Keep the Big Picture in Tact". Waters was very good last night, borderline great! Hello my good friend HOPE..its been 10 years since we have spoke!
I agree Roch, shut Adam down for what's left of the season. Seeing our luck with players named Adam and bone fractures, I'd rather not take the chance. Plus it gives another player a chance to come up and show what they've got too.
Roch - congratulations on your career move. I am glad you will be wisecracking onwards.
I just wanted to say, that as much as I have bashed Mora's offensive performance earlier this year, and as much as I loved seeing "Trouble" Waters do so well, the highlight for me last night was Mora's grin. Lit up my TV screen in the middle of the night. I actually woke up my wife to have her watch it (Joy of Tivo). I love that it is reproduced on the MASN site, but seeing it on the big screen was really something.
Let's hope that Waters is indeed the next Scotty Mac (his postgame comments were certainly by the Book) or the next Jamie Moyer. And not the next Jeff Ballard one year wonder.
BTW Roch, you might want to let someone know at your old haunting grounds that they're running a banner ad for Markakis bobblehead night. I didn't realize we were playing the Astros again this Thursday. Have we time warped again?
Good morning, Roch! I agree that there is no need to rush Jones. He has the potential for a long and storied career so let's not break him for just a few weeks at the end of the season.
I can't help but wonder how long they will let Castro bat .127 before they bring Fahey back? Castro is a good shortstop, but when Fahey was sent down in April, it was supposedly (in large part) because of his .200 average at the time. Since coming back at the end of June, Fahey stepped up and became a much better hitter and continued to play well at shortstop, and now he's gone again. He deserves better from the O's.
It seems for some players, there is no reward for hard work and dedication. Thank goodness Waters is finally getting his chance.
I think it will be amusing when the announcers have to say "Weiters catching for Waters."
Say that three times fast!
I think we need to make sure Adam gets his rest...the last thing we want is him to get some reoccurring injury from coming back too soon. I cannot imagine us making it back into contention and needing his bat.
No way they should bring him back. Jones is a big reason many of us have bought into the 'rebuilding' plan.
Shutting him down will protect him to make sure he'll be healthy for the Wieters era (yeah I'm going that far).
It will also give Lou an extended chance. The man has said that what he needs is consistent playing time to be good.. (to me that sounds like begging for more chances, but his numbers do back up his statements.)
My point is that Jones has given many of us hope for the Orioles future and its not worth jeopardizing his promising career. That being said, lets shut down Waters for the season so he will be rested for Opening Day next year.
Completely agree about Adam, Roch. While it would have been nice to see Adam continue to develop over the last two months, I think there is little Adam would gain playing the last one or two weeks versus if he didn't play for the rest of the season. Let's get him healthy and see him really breakout next spring
Roch, let's talk contrasts. Waters' starting debut vs. Sarfate's? It's like night and day, and I don't mean the numbers either. The poise under pressure, the tempo, the placement of pitches, changing speeds with ease.
When was the last time we actually wanted to watch the O's starting pitchers?? May perhaps?
Sitting Jones is a no-brainer. Let's see what Lou can do.
Great outing by Waters. That’s an understatement—a guy comes up and in his first major league appearance, tosses 8 shutout innings giving up just 1 hit against the best team in baseball. I have no complaints about whether or not he should’ve finished. To all of the other young pitchers who might get called up: this is how you make a statement and how you guarantee at least another chance to start. There is a lot of opportunity to be had on the major league pitching staff if anyone from the farm is willing to go for it.
It’s way too premature to say anything about how Waters will do. The key thing is, how does he do the next time, and the time after that, when word on him is out and he has to make adjustments. Perhaps we can find hope that Waters, like Jeremy Guthrie, is a product of another team’s farm system and is therefore better prepared for major league success. I suppose that’s hope at its most cynical.
It’s a shame about Jones and his foot. He did have a solid season up until this point and showed improvement over the course of the year (that’s a great sign). Of course, this probably means Payton gets more playing time. While some think this is good for improving his trade value, I think it hurts (and just how much more can you improve someone’s trade value in just a few weeks time when it is practically nil?). If he plays close to full time, he’ll really show just how bad he is at the plate. The guy’s .660ish OPS last year and this year are not only woeful, they are way off his so-so career OPS of .751 that was already inflated by 1+ seasons in Colorado. Lucky for the O’s his $5 million or so per year contract ends this year.
I'm taking the opposing point of view. Rest Adam until he's healthy and then let go back at continue to work on improving his hitting.
The only way to get better at hitting Major Leauge Pitching is to see Major League Pitching. If he doesn't play anymore this season, he should go to the Arizona Fall League.
The O's certainly can't point to their own pick in the 2000 draft--Beau Hale--as a turning point! At least not a desired turning point.
Totally agree on Jones. Take care of him. The Bedard trade is fate's payback for the Glenn Davis theft engineered by Roland Hemond a while back. Just too bad Jones didn't come from the White Sox or Astros for real closure. Huff turned the bill of Waters' cap up for him after the game. Nice to see such consideration for a guy who has been on the minor league road for a long time. Waters' performance proves what Jamie Moyer proves every time out: its about control. Is Waters Penn's Pipp?
Nice to see you're all echoing what I posted in here several days ago about shutting down Jones...you too, Roch.
the site is still not remembering my "personal info."
Brian - I disagree on Favre. What he has earned is his sizable paycheck. He has earned the worship of millions(which he is now willing to throw away at the altar of his ego). Not only have the Packers paid his salary for the two less than spectacular season that came before last years more Favre like year, they have had to pay Aaron starters money because they never know which will be the year that Brett doesnt exercise his woman's prerogative to change her mind. How did he get from "I just want to play" to "I will only play for a division rival where I can embarass the Pack and beat them twice"? I hope he never plays again. I hope they eat his salary and make him sit at the end of the bench. Build him an outhouse to dress in so he cant pollute the lockerroom. Favre = T.O.
It's OK, Roch, 99% of the blog readers got the joke.
Sit Adam. What is there to be gained by one last week, when there is future damage to be risked?
jimbob757,
You asked, "Is Waters Penn's Pipp?" While that has a certain ring to it, the question should be "Is Penn Waters' Pipp?" Pipp was the guy who was injured and gave Gehrig a chance to play, not the other way around. Here, Penn is the player whose injury gave Waters a chance.
LET HIM REST!