Yanks vs. Sox
The last two comments submitted to School of Roch, from Brian and Caprimode, reminded me of a debate that's raged over the last few years - at least from within the Camden Yards press box each time the Yankees or Red Sox visit.
Who's got the most obnoxious fans?
(I was going to soft-sell it a little, but that's how it's usually worded, so what the heck).
It used to be said that the Yankees' fans were the worst, that you'd rather open-mouth kiss the guy peeing on the subway platform at 3 a.m. than walk through a crowd of pin-striped pinheads. But it's common now for me to hear people complain in a much louder voice about the Sox supporters, going so far as to say that they've become more insufferable since ending The Curse.
Me? I just like a full ballpark and an intense environment. Keeps me from nodding off in the sixth inning. Maybe soon, the majority of noise will come from people wearing orange T-shirts.
So I'm asking: Whose fans are the worst? Which support group would you most like to have fitted for concrete spikes and lowered to the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay?
Or do you not find either offensive? Perhaps you look forward to their visits. Maybe Royals fans get under your skin. That's fine, too.
I had the misfortune of walking through the entrance to home plate plaza earlier this week at the exact same time as Red Sox broadcaster Jerry Remy, whose cult following is, at the very least, a curiosity to us outsiders. The guy was a decent second baseman who somehow became Ted and Yaz and Fisk all rolled into one.
It's bad enough that Sox fans stop below the press box, look up to the visiting broadcast booth and yell "Rem-Daaaaaawg!" It gets old fast - as in the amount of time it took for Garrett Olson to blow his last lead. But I got caught in the middle of this bizarre lovefest while waiting for the elevator. People screamed as if Elvis had just entered the building. They asked for his signature on the T-shirts they were wearing. A couple of women offered to have his baby. One guy, too.
He seemed a little uncomfortable - or perhaps mildly annoyed is a better description - with all the attention, but he went along with it.
It took all my restraint to keep from yelling "Rem-Daaaawg" as we passed each other outside the clubhouse after the game. And offering to have his kid.
Now if it was Bernie Carbo...
On a separate note: The Orioles have officially recalled pitcher Radhames Liz from Triple-A Norfolk. And first-round pick Brian Matusz will be at Camden Yards tonight. Make him feel welcome.
Red Sox fans are the most annoying because they're such front-runners. Yankee fans have come to Baltimore for as long as I can remember and, while obnoxious, are also very knowledgeable. The Red Sox fans have shown up en masse all of a sudden in the last five years and act like they are God's gift to baseball.
I guarantee that if the Yankees fell, you'd still see a ton of Yankees fans at Camden Yards. That certainly wouldn't be the case with Sawx fans if the Red Sox fell.
Which is worse? How can you tell the difference?
They're both teams that compete with their payroll and their fans, so accustomed to winning, are arrogant enough to think that behaving deplorably in other stadiums is acceptable.
What does it matter if they're wearing red or navy?
I was at the game on Tuesday night and sat in front of the most annoying 14 year-olds in the world, screaming their heads off for the Sox. Even worse, it turned out they were from Bethesda. Little front-running traitors.
Hey Roch, long time, no talk. nice new crib, good luck. just wanted to respond to your question; Red Sox fans should be made to sit through ten straight Garrett Olson starts. they deserve it. At least Yankee fans will give the Orioles respect when they earn it.
I think what's even more obnoxious is selling the opposing team's souvenirs in our own merchandise stands. Way to embarrass the O's fans even more in our own ballpark! Now THAT is great PR work is it not? (Where is that smiley for rolling eyes when you need it?)
Red Sox fans are more obnoxious in the fact that they have gotten awfully upity for a group who spent almost 9 decades without a series win...that and they only know ONE freaking chant. Not a very original bunch those Sox fans.
On the other hand the Yankees are more obnoxious in the fact that they can't distinguish between teams that existed during their lifetime and the one they have now. 26 rings? ...and most of those came when they were only about ten teams in all of baseball, but they often leave that part out.
I can't decide...am I allowed to just hate them both?
Unrelated - saw you on Anita Marks show yesterday. Loved the look on your face when she oh-by-the-way mentioned that Markakis will make the Hall of Fame.
Um, memo to Anita: can he make an All Star team first?
Nothing against, Markakis (love his game), but that was one ridiculous comment.
I feel that the Sox fans are the worst. What makes it ever harder to take is that the Oriole ushers side with the Sox and Yanks fan much more often than with the O's fans. I have watched with my own eyes one of my friends be spit on and verbally hazed by Sox fans, and then he (my buddy) was ejected from the game. It's ridiculous and it really needs to change.
And I hate to throw names out there but one of the head ushers, we'll call him "Paul" is the ringleader and he is a bigger traitor than Benedict Arnold.
Thanks for letting me get that off of my chest.
Far and away I consider the Red Sox fans exceedingly more arrogant and obnoxious, to the point that I'm not sure I can stomach another Red Sox game. And this is coming from someone who attends at least 30 games a season. I understand that if Baltimore fans supported the team and showed we wouldn't even need this deabte, and before I get jumped on, I understand the Orioles responsibility to field a winning team. That said, I wish Baltimore fans were just a little less hospitable. Perhaps a little more passion and a few less manners would let the Red Sox folks know that it's not okay to come into our stadium and behave as they do. I had a row of drunken loudmouths yelling and clapping into my ears and my teenage daughters ears to the point that my girls were frightened. As a mom do I really have to risk a brawl for my family to enjoy a game? Maybe if some O's fans took a stand they wouldn't feel like they own the place. Do you think this happens in Yankee stadium?? I don't think so, not even at 11 games out.
Yankee and Red Sox fans, while certainly obnoxious, cannot touch Philadelphia fans. I wore a Durham Bulls hat to a Phillies game one time and almost had to fight two guys to prove it wasn't a Denver Broncos hat.
As the Diceman once said, "God forbid you ask someone the time in that town."
The likely reply: "The time? What do I look like, Big Frickin' Ben to you? Why don't you get a job and buy a watch you lousy, stinking, freakin' bum. ... And your mother blows."
Personally I think Sox fans are the worst, maybe not in Boston but the fans that show up at OPACY. For the longest time I thought it was the opposite until I was forced to sit with Yankees fan in a club box at OPACY. They are much more knowledgeable of the team's history and baseball itself. It seems that ever since the Bo Sox have been winning they are the bandwagon team for the transplant fans that come from the Baltimore-DC Metro area to show up and knock on O's fans for not winning any titles since the 80s. I quickly respond to having them name a series of players from the 80s/90s pre winning championships and they can't even name some of the big ones, its always funny.
As long as Yankees and Red Sox make it to the World Series, it's not important on who's got the most obnoxious fans. I'm a baseball (yankees/ Red Sox at that) fan also.
I think the Sawx fans have been the worst since they broke The Curse. They think they have all the Magic, but we know better around here. Don't get me wrong, I still hate the Yankees the most, but yeah the Boston fans are somehow managing to be worse than the Yank fans.
I like to go to games with those teams though. I see it as high risk, high reward. Sure the game is tougher to win, and if the O's lose you're going to have to hear about it the whole game. However if the O's win, not much is sweeter than beating one of those teams and all their fans in our house.
I've had this question rolling around my head for a few years now. If the Yankees and Red Sox are supposed to be mortal enemies, the fiercest of rivals, then why do all their fans use the same SUPER annoying chant? You know, "Let's Go Red Sox" or "Let's Go Yankees" with the same tone and inflection. I think teams should have unique chants, like the tomohawk chop, not that I like that one, but at least you know it's the Braves. While we have several good traditions here, like O's in the Anthem and "Thank God I'm a Country Boy" and the Oriole Magic song it would be nice if we had an infectious, unifying chant to ourselves.
They're equally obnoxious, just of different varieties.
In the past RS fans were always whining about not having won since the fall of the Roman Empire and NYY fans thought they WERE the Roman Empire.
I've said this before on your other blog but I never get tired of the memories:
When Sec 34 was going strong at Memorial Stadium, whenever a NYY fan would dare to come up there wearing a NY hat, we would get up en masse (that means all together), point at him and shout in unison, "Who s--t on your head? Who s--t on your head?" repeatedly. With glee and malice.
You'd probably get thrown out for that these days.
We loved Mr. Schwartz the usher up there.
It seems that the better their team is doing, the more obnoxious the Red Sox/Yankees fans are. I had always been annoyed with NY fans in years past, but a June game vs. the Red Sox at Camden Yards was the worst I've ever experienced. After the O's lost (and Manny hit his 500th homer) the Boston fans took obnoxious to a whole new level. I (a girl) was actually heckled by a group of guys all the way to the parking garage after the game. This despite the fact that I was with a friend dressed in her Red Sox gear. Now, I can understand being happy that your team won, but it's just rude to go into another town and taunt the fans there. Especially since the Orioles--both the team and the fans--aren't really too big of a threat to Boston. I also can't stand it when people say that we should be thankful to these fans for coming since they buy tickets that would go unsold, therefore helping the team and boosting the local economy. Sure, it's nice that attendance goes up, but I'd rather sit in a half-full stadium with people who actually respect the game.
Sox fans are for surely worse nowadays. Although, I'm going to the game tomorrow night, so we'll see how much I can stand the Yankee ones after that...
I would have to say that the Red Sox fans are by far the worst. I despise the fact that they take over our ballpark a number of times per year but also hate them for other reasons. Once I was catching the last flight from baltimore up to Boston which was supposed to leave at 9pm it was originally delayed until 1030pm. We started to board the plane when all of a sudden 9 police officers ran onto the plane only to drag 3 drunken Sox fans off of it. Needless to say I got into Boston at 1230am instead of 11pm. I actually think eagles fans are better than them which is hard to believe.
Sox fans have become increasingly annoying and it's very unfortunate that they have been allowed to take over OPACY. However, if they fail to make the playoffs this year that should help quiet them for a few months.
Both Sox and Yanks fans are obnoxious and irritating, but the biggest difference I see between the two is that the Yanks fans actually seem to understand and appreciate baseball. The Sox fans only know how to yell, "Youk" and sing Sweet Caroline. That may have to do with the "band-wagon" factor, but they seem to be fairly ignorant of anything outside of the "Nation."
I am on board with you about Yanks fans, Roch. They used to be just awful. Heck - they even had an episode of Homicide: Life on the Street about a murder at OPACY involving yankee fans. Today - those people are the least of our problems. Red Sox fans are without doubt - the single rudest most obnoxious group of fans to ever invade our stadium. They are insufferable, plain and simple. We at least used to be able to bond with them in our hatred of the yanks. Now - they, like yanks fans smell an easy victory when they visit our park. I often pose the question:
Did that green(or pink) Red Sox hat come free with your bandwagon ticket?
Last time I was at Fenway (2005) the fans were great, and since most of my dealings are with fans living in the Midwest, I almost never have any issues with Red Sox fans.
As for Yankee fans...I hate them -- they are terrible to be around when the team is losing and even worse when the team is winning.
I would say that fans of Howard Stern are by far the most obnoxious. And the Philadelphia fans who fill the jail cells in the bowels of their stadium rank a distant second.
Red Sox fans are more obnoxious.Red Sox fans think their sole reason for living is obsessively following around a baseball team and shouting into your ear how much they love their team -- in between drinking their ninth beer and 50 millionth f-word.
Red Sox fans are easily ahead of Yankees fans in annoying, arrogant behavior. I know it is popular to jump on bandwagons, but before you jump on, at least know a little bit about the thing you are jumping on to. Red Sox fans are generally less knowledgeable and more pompous. Just 4 years ago, they won their first world series in 80+ years and today they act like the best team ever.
And the "Let's go Red Sox" chant (a direct rip off from the Yankees - it's stupid when they do it as well) only seems to occur when the fans get bored or the team is doing well. Usually, "Let's Go ______" is done to help motivate the team.
Someone mentioned those eligable for the rule V draft. I would be interested in seeing that list could you post it on here. Like the other person asked what pitchers and hitters are eligible. I know how the rules work I just don't know whose eligable based on all of the varibles high school and college wise.
Red Sox fans, hands down. You know who they remind me of? Duke fans. They have that privileged air about them, looking down on us. Remember Duke's "not our rival" chant? Maybe in a few years we'll be able to break that out when we battle Tampa Bay for East supremacy.
On the Remy player-turned-'caster tangent, this past week I found that I have not one, but two, Buck Martinez baseball cards. 1975 version with the sweet mustache, and the '77, not quite as sweet. Buck-Daawg!!!
Jim Hunter: "Birds fan OBoy has 2 Buck Martinez cards..."
Buck: "He sure does...."
I really want to get them signed. Roch, can you make this happen for me?
Roch,
I'm going to my first O's-Yankees game Saturday so I'll give a really good opinion then.
That said, the few times I've encountered people wearing Yanks gear (oddly enough at a Tigers game once) they were polite and respectful. The Sox fans however...
I've been to 3 O's-Sox games (2 this year), and the fans are terrible. A few nice people who are willing to talk baseball, but the "our team is the best" and "haven't you heard about 2004 & 2007) among other things gets old quick.
Like at Tuesday's game when a Sox fan jumped up at every hit, picking his kid up with him, who promptly kicked my friend in the back of the head until I finally asked him to stop. No apology just an "ok" followed by other Sox fans asking why she couldn't move her head out of the way.
Also, at the O's-Tigers game this year I had the misfortune of sitting next to a bunch of obnoxious Tiger fans (how do they exist? One good year since 1984?) Of course they all walked out even before Luke Scott hit the walkoff.
Roch,
I think the real answer is Band wagoners, the people who jump on the bus just because it's cool to do so. The entire "Red Sox Nation*" (*not from Boston or the General Area) is a joke and a very well ran marketing scheme to take advantage of slow, mentally challenged drunk people.
I work with huge Yanks fans and my better half is a huge Sox fan (She's from Plymouth, MA) so I've got to see the best of both worlds and it's generally the same thing;
People not from the area, who have no idea about the history of the ballclub and just want to feel of something special are usually the ones that cause problems. And it's on both sides of the ball, especially when the Yanks are doing well enough to warrant people supporting their clause.
The last time I was at OPACY I sat in a huge section of Red Sox fans (surprise) and they actually argued with each other and almost got into a fight over a very stupid subject.
Just my two cents.
When Yankee fans get unbearable I just remind them that the franchise moved to New York from Baltimore and that the team was originally called the Orioles. That shuts them up.
yankee fans are there till the end. sox fans? No. Have you ever met a sox fan? They introduce themselves as HUGE sox fans. They NEED you to recognize their allegiance, even if this allegiance was with the pirates two years ago haha. They stand and be obnoxtious on like infield singles. I got treated aweful at fenway. Imagine, someone who doesnt live in boston? WHAT? Sox are a joke. Yankees fans will come to bmore and see games because they love the game. Sox fans go to camden yards to let you know they're there. They dont even know whats going on in the game. They dont care. And its obnoxtious. Oh, and anyone notice they leave if they're losing by the 7th? They cant take losing because someone might get on them for talking you know what. They think they're on the team, and when their guys dont play well its a reflection on them because of their smack talk. It's pathetic. Wait till they are a 4th place team like the 90's, there will be 2,000 sox fans at the yard. O's baby!
Roch
I would have to say the Sox fans are more obnoxious then the yankee fans... But on the other hand when i went to the O's-Tigers game (the one where luke got his walk off homer on ewtaw street) I sat in a section where it was mostly all tiger fans and omg they were so obnoxious..
I have a sign that I bring to each game that i go to that says (THATS HOW WE DO IT IN BALTIMORE)When the tigers got that 6-run lead they were being UGH!! They were all excited in the bottom of the 9th right up until Hernandez tied it.
On the other hand i did convert a tigers fan to an O's fan. it all started when she said her fav color was Orange..(she went and bought a Orioles T-Shirt(Markakis))
Regarding Mussina and the HOF. It is getting close. Baseball reference web site has several HOF scores and most of them put Mussina in the HOF. One score is HOF Standards (a HOF is usually over 50) and another is HOF Monitor (a HOF is usually over 100). Mussina has scores of 52 and 116. Someone like Moyer isn't close with scores of 35 and 47.
Mussina gets a lot of points for being in the top 10 of a number of pitching stats on a seasonal basis (such as era, k/bb, shutouts, whip, innings, all star games,etc.) Moyer doesn't do well in many of these categories.
Others such as Blyleven as also close with scores of 50/120, Jack Morris 39/122.
The system is far from perfect but certainly differentiates Mussina from Moyer as most reasonable people would. Personally I think he needs another year or two with 15 wins to make it.
http://www.baseball-reference.com
Rich
I think both are obnoxiuos in their own way.
One easy way to solve some of the problem. Start beating their teams reguarly at OPACY.
I've had bad experiences with both Yankee and Red Sox fans. Overall though, I agree with Matt who said that band wagoners are the worst. Which means that right now, Red Sox 'fans' are the worst. Yankee 'fans' held that title for a looong time, though.
I actually am friends with some genuine Red Sox fans... you know, those who knew baseball existed before 2004 and they all tend to be knowledgeable and good to talk baseball with. And I've heard them complain about how obnoxious the band wagon fans are.
The answer depends on which team has had the most recent success, which currently is the Sux, thus their fans are the most annoying.
I was at an O's-Yanks game in 2005 after Ripken had broken Gehrig's streak and I ended up in a section with 40 NYC cops who had taken a bus down (and were drinking the whole way). This was before the Yankees World Series Streak and before opposing fans took over Camden Yards (there was actually a time when a O's ticket was a hard thing to come by, remember). The guy I sat next to was polite and knowledgeable about the game. He told me a story about being in Fenway, trying to catch a Paul O'Neil homerun, when a Sux fan came up to him and said "I'm going to hunt you down after the game and watch you bleed Red Sox red all over the streets of Boston." Contemporaneously, one of the guy's comrades got into a shouting match with a middle-aged O's fannette, who didn't like the fact that she was sitting in a section with loud, drunk Yankee fans. Well, it turns out that this fannette had cancer. I know this because while she was arguing with the drunk cop, her wig fell off. Most of the rest of the section began to haggle her relentlessly, going so far as to call her a "bald bi*ch." It was reprehensible and has colored my view of Yankee fans ever since. On the other hand, I've been to O's-Sox games at Fenway and OPACY and I've encountered both types of Sux fans: the bandwagoneers who have never heard of Hobson, Palmer, McNally & Ceullar; and those who remember trading Curt Schilling for Mike Boddicker in the late 80's.
Bottom line: both fan bases have the "true" baseball fans who are knowledgable about the game and devoutly follow their team (they don't all necessarily live in the greater NY or Boston areas either), and both have the bandwagoneers that are along for the ride, deriving some sort of personal satisfaction from the fact that they root for a winner. It's the bandwagoneers that are the most annoying, and currently, Boston has more of them.
I also agree with the poster who tells Yankee fans that NY is really Baltimore's old triple-A franchise - it gets a surprise out of most Yankee fans, whether they're "true" fans or not. It also is a good way to remind Boston that the Baltimore-NY rivalry has a little more history than the Boston-NY rivalry (they stole our freakin' team, although Ned Hanlon went in the HOF as an Oriole).