Moose's retirement call
Reports are surfacing that Mike Mussina has decided to retire instead of returning for one more season. And they're true. I'm sure of it.
Look for the Yankees to make the announcement tomorrow. You can't keep something like that a secret, especially in New York. And especially when Ken Rosenthal, my former colleague at The Sun and one of the best in the business, is working the phones for FOXSports.
Mussina won 147 games for the Orioles and 123 for the Yankees. That's 270 wins, 153 losses and a 3.68 ERA, with 2,813 strikeouts that rank 19th all-time.
We can renew the debate over whether he's a Hall of Famer. More and more people in the industry believe so. But does he go into Cooperstown as an Oriole or a Yankee?
He left here a bitter man, resentful that the Orioles didn't try harder to keep him. He wasn't comfortable on the back burner, felt like he was being ignored and believed that he deserved better. He wanted to stay, but never felt like the Orioles made the effort. And he knew the string of losing seasons would grow longer and longer.
At least we know which organization he'll represent when he's inducted into the Orioles' Hall of Fame.
hey Roch,
I always keep thinking how different the O's would be, had Mussina been resigned. I don't think the lean years would have been so bad having Moose to send out every 5th day. To me, his stats make him a HOFer. But Doesn't it make since for MacPhail to at least offer Moose a contract to try to get him to 300 wins. Offer him big bucks, 2 years for 35M. Wouldn't you rather see that, then having to spend 90M+ for Burnett or what ever else is out there.
Do you know whether Moose lost his desire for the game or felt the Yankees did not offer him an appropriate contract?
If it's the latter is there any chance that he play for the right deal?
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He was talking retirement before the season ended. I just think he's ready to move onto the next phase of his life. - Roch
Mike Mussina leaving the Orioles was the biggest black mark on this organization to date. The only thing hurting more than him leaving us would be for him to go into the Hall of Fame as a Yankee. In my younger years when he pitched for us, I would not plan a thing other than watching him pitch and loved every minute of it.
I was disappointed he signed w/the Yankees, but it was our fault for letting him go. He would have been a Cal Ripken type player...playing his entire career w/one team. By the way, if he does make the HOF, does Mussina or MLB decide which team he will represent?
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That's a Moose call. Which team do you think he'd represent if he makes it? - Roch
I'm happy the Moose finally got a 20-win season as his swan song...but even happier that he never won a World Series ring with those money-spewing pinstriped [expletive(s) deleted]!!!
np: "Hole in My Life," the Police
god bless you carl everett your a snowflake on a mid summer night. lets spend this masn bankroll and get a player for once. it would be special to have pending on weiters 3 of the best if not best switch hitters in the line up then with nicky and jonesy switching up its hard to match up. Lets make it happen yeah lets also try to get a pack of newports for danny and ramon. (hard pack 100s)
Oh let Mussina the trader become a Hall-of-Fame member representing the Yankees. Stay away from OPACY, visit the New Yankee Stadium on 'Old Timer's Day.' I don't want to waste anymore time talking about this clown.
Lean years wouldn't have been so lean if Moose had stayed. He had every right to be bitter. For the life of me I can't understand the people who see him as a traitor. If Peter Angelos had made him a legit offer he, along with Palmer, would be the two greatest pitchers in team history.
Did someone here actually suggest that the team bring back Miguel Tejada for one year to play shortstop????
Wow...After all that he still had more wins with the O's than the Yankees? And just one more full season with the O's. Amazing.
I always loved this article:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/mike_mussina_convinced_hes
Roch,
I think that you are wrong. Or maybe I am but I recall hearing that the Hall decides which hat the player wears when he goes in.
I don't care which hat he wears but I am glad that he did not win a ring with that arrogant smug organzation from the North. Sad to say, I rooted against him everytime he pitched for that over-paid, over-hyped, over-rated team.
As far as which hat he represents on his plaque, I thought it was the Hall of Fame's decision now. This was done after Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield made a mockery out of which hat was used.
It will always be a black mark on the Angelos regime, same as Miller and Davey. And those are just the main three, someday though sort of like the last active Colt to retire these things will finally fade away. Myself I would like to see him honored in person at Cooperstown, but can I share that field with Yankee fan? That would be hard and degrading.
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I was sure the player decided....but now that you mention it....I might have been livin' in the past. - Roch
I say he goes as a Yankee, it's a shame but they showed more interest in him as an organization. That statement alone speaks volumns about this ownership group. Good for him to go out on top.
Roch- do you think Moose would even accept an Oriole invite if put in the O's Hall of Fame?
Didn't Pettitte and Clemens "retire" to sign with the Astros?
I'm not expecting the same out of Mussina, just an observation. I'd like to see him in an Orioles cap in the HOF. From that standpoint, a reunion year or two here before retirement would be nice.
No doubt in my mind that Mussina would wear a Yankee cap at his Hall induction. And it really doesn't bother me. The whole betrayal thing happened so long ago. I feel better for just letting it go and moving on. It's like a divorce... you hold a grudge and you're only hurting yourself. The bigger question is whether or not he gets in. I really don't think it's a lock. There are a few other guys with similar stats who are still on the outside looking in.
I'll never forget the day when it was announced he signed with the Yanks. It was on a Sunday and I was a freshman in college and I called it Sunday Bloody Sunday. I remember feeling really empty when he held up those pinstripes. Has to be one of the lowest points for the O’s and for O’s fans in the past 10 years.
Sorry, Roch, but I think I can improve this entry vastly with a few minor edits:
"Reports are surfacing that Mike Mussina has decided to retire [WITHOUT A WORLD SERIES RING] instead of returning for one more season..."
"...Mussina won 147 games for the Orioles and 123 for the Yankees. That's 270 wins, 153 losses and a 3.68 ERA, with 2,813 strikeouts that rank 19th all-time [AND ZERO WORLD SERIES RINGS]..."
Much better!
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I think you have a future on the copy desk! Good to hear from you, Lindsay! - Roch
Who cares about him. But I did see him smile twice.
He'll always be an Oriole to me. Besides, all his best years were with the Orioles, the only thing he achieved in NY was a 20 win season.
Look at Frank Robinson, spent most of his career as a Red, but his standout years were with the O's so he was inducted as an O. Atleast his primary team is the Orioles, so he may be inducted in a Yankee uniform but when it lists primary team it say the Orioles.
Looks like the Hall of Fame decides what team a player represents:
(From Wikipedia)
Players with multiple teams
The Hall has also recently changed its stance regarding team membership. Although all the teams for which a player played are usually listed in the text of the plaque, most are depicted wearing the cap of one specific team. The rules of the Hall indicate that the player will be depicted wearing the cap of his "primary" team. Although the Hall always had the final decision-making power regarding which cap would appear, for many years the Hall deferred to the wishes of players for whom more than one team could fit the description of "primary" team, and allowed each player in that category to choose the cap which would appear on his plaque.
In 2001, the Hall of Fame decided to change the policy on cap logo selection, given rumors that some teams were offering compensation such as number retirement, money or organizational jobs in exchange for the cap designation. (For example, though Wade Boggs denied the claims, some media reports had said that his contract with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays required Boggs to request depiction in the Hall of Fame as a Devil Ray).[16] Although the decision-making process would be a mutual responsibility, the Hall, not the players, would have the final say in such matters. Newly-elected members affected by the change include the following:
Gary Carter: Inducted in 2003, Carter was the first player to be affected by the new policy. Carter won his only championship with the 1986 New York Mets, and wanted his induction plaque to depict him wearing a Mets cap, even though he had spent twelve years (1974–84, 1992) with the Montreal Expos as opposed to five (1985–89) with the Mets. The Hall of Fame decided that his plaque would instead show Carter with an Expos cap.
Wade Boggs: Boggs's only championship was as a member of the 1996 New York Yankees, for whom he played from 1993–97, but his best career numbers were posted during his eleven years (1982–92) wearing the Boston Red Sox uniform. Boggs would eventually be depicted wearing a Boston cap for his 2005 induction, despite his acrimonious relationship with Red Sox management.
looks like there is still hope for Moose to go in as an Oriole...
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Thanks for the research. And let's raise our glasses for another toast to Wikipedia! - Roch
Happy retirement, Moose, and this way the Yanks don't get compensation for losing a type-A free agent! Gotta still kinda hate the guy, but always thought he was a good, decent person, and since he never did get that ring, I am already letting the negativity go. I'd be glad to see another O's hat in the Hall (goodness knows we have no other possible candidates for a good,long while to come.)
Roch--I disagree with your assessment of Moose's departure--I believe he never had a desire to stay with the Orioles. I believe he knew his best chances for 20 wins and a World Series ring came with signing with the Yankees and all the rest is a smoke screen. I wish him well though--he was a fine pitcher.
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Hey Vernon. I was covering the team and close to the situation, and I'm positive that he wanted to stay, but was angered that the front office didn't show any urgency in getting him signed to an extension. They did, however, take care of Scott Erickson. - Roch
Mussina is a no doubt hall of famer. I can't think of another pitcher who threw 18 seasons, his whole career, against the AL East in the most offensive (in multiple ways) era in baseball history. He has an outstanding winning percentage, 2800 strikeouts, the longevity thing as well. When he was in the post season in his prime he was dominant. Outpitched Randy Johnson twice in the 97 ALDS.
There are several absolute travesties in recent Orioles baseball history (I'm only 30 so I don't go back too far)...
- Trading Eddie Murray
- Firing Cal Sr. after only six games, then losing 15 more
- The trade for Glenn Davis
- Signing A. Joey Belle
- Davey Johnson "resigning" after winning manager of the year
- Pat Gillick not being retained after the 1998 season
- July 2005
- Failing to retain Mussina early in the 2000 season when he was actually willing to talk about an extension
V. Putin.... Why is Mussina a traitor? (not trader) Angelos, the worst owner in the history of baseball, is the reason he left. Why should an ace like Mussina play for a team that is not interested in keeping him, or even trying to keep him? Sorry but in today's world of sports, it is all about money. If they don't show you the money you are worth, then it's time to look elsewhere.
Mussina was golden and he knew it. Angelos did absolutely nothing.
Although Moose left my favorite team for my least favorite team, I always thought he was a class act and a top-notch pitcher w/ maybe one off season, 2 years ago. If Don Sutton is in the HOF, Moose should also make into the HOF. Sutton and Moose seem to have very similar stats w/ Sutton playing 5 years longer. I never really appreciate longevity as the only case for making it. I think you should have been great also. Not sure Sutton was ever great...not sure Mussina was ever great, but both were very, very good. Sutton waited awhile, and I believe Moose will wait awhile as well.
I still think Bert Blyleven, Jim Kaat, and Jack Morris should and will get in first. Not sure why it's taken so long for them, but I also don't get why Tony Oliva (one of the best hitters I ever saw...I was young, but I can't forget how the O's could never get this guy out)was not elected as well.
Congratulations Mike Mussina, on a career most professionals who've ever played would be envious.
If Moose really is retired, it would be in his best interest to cultivate a long term relationship with the Orioles. He will never mean much to New York, and will essentially be forgotten by the time next season starts. Baltimore will never forget Moose, and Oriole fans love those who love them back.
It benefits a player of his stature to have a baseball home. Baltimore is his best bet for such a home. However, he needs to work hard, aggressively,and begin now to reconcile the relationship.
Moose might be able to express how difficult it was to leave and how much he loved the fans, Camden Yards, etc etc. He might say that the only reason he left is because it was obvious to any thinking person that the Orioles were going to be woeful for the rest of the decade, but that his heart was always in Baltimore. He might say that it appears that the Orioles have finally righted the ship, and that he would like to do his part in advancing the cause. He'd be happy to help pitchers in spring training, he'd be happy to help sell Tex on the benefits of playing in Baltimore. And perhaps most importantly, emphatically state that he prefers to wear an Oriole hat if he is so blessed with HOF membership.
Is it wrong that I don't care whether Mussina retires as a Yankee or not?
Hey Roch:
I would love to think that if he went into the Hall it would be as an Oriole (although I would think considering the hard feelings he had when he left Baltimore, if it were up to him, he would go in as a Yankee). I seem to remember though a few years back in the Roger Clemens case, before he was ever accused of steroids, the question was posed to him about whether he would want to go into the Hall as a Red Sox or Yankee and he stated he wanted to go in as a Red Sox. I think there was some controversy because MLB may have stated that may not be the case because his record at the time was better in Boston as well as the majority of his career was with the Red Sox. I hope they view this as the case w/Mussina...he has at least 25-30 more wins and pitched a little longer as an Oriole. Either way, he's a class act and would be happy to just go into the Hall and be honored to represent either the Orioles or Yankees.
Roch - how long before he would be inducted into the Orioles Hall of Fame? I think he should be in the MLB Hall of Fame. His numbers support it. He never won a Cy Young but was definitely in the running several years, especially 1994, before that season was cut short. I don't think there will be many more 300 game winners, or 300 inning pitchers. Those were from different eras where there were 4 man rotations and less attention to a pitch count. I am not sure if he would choose a Yankee or an Orioles cap. He would not be one to divulge that until he had to. He was the Orioles last true ace. Maybe Cal could influence him.
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The player has to be retired for at least one year. - Roch
didn't we offer "NudeFinger/250th best Yankee ever" $78 million to stay and the Yanks offered 88? Isn't that like a two grand difference after taxes?
Before anyone thinks about the Hall of Fame for Mussina, consider that none of the following pitchers have made it:
Jack Morris
Bert Blyleven
David Cone
Bret Saberhagen
David Wells (not yet eligible)
All have either multiple World Series wins, Cy Young Awards, 20-win seasons, strikeout numbers, perfect games, or no-hitters that surpass Mussina.
The Moose has one 20-win season. Nothing else from this list.
No way Moose should make it if these guys didn't.