Closing costs
Orioles manager Dave Trembley isn't being judged exclusively on wins and losses. We've heard it countless times.
It's worth sending along another reminder once your closer has been traded for two players who won't offer any assistance at the major league level this season.
Trembley understands the logic in a non-contender moving a marketable chip for prospects, but it doesn't do him any favors at the moment. And it reminds me of former manager Mike Hargrove, whose roster would be stripped down as he was, indeed, being judged on wins and losses.
Say goodbye to Mike Bordick, B.J. Surhoff, Charles Johnson, Will Clark, Mike Timlin. Now go out there and beat the Yankees.
I've often compared having a closer on a losing team to putting shiny new hubcaps on a '70 Pinto, but you'll probably miss George Sherrill a little more the next time a one-run lead is lost in the ninth inning. We're still trying to win games here, too. And it can be quite disheartening for a young starter to sit in the dugout and see his work wasted.
Sherrill is one of those guys who will probably be appreciated more once he's gone. As The Sun's Jeff Zrebiec said yesterday, the lefty has the guts of a burglar. He'll doesn't just take the ball at Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park, he wants the ball. No situation was too intense for him.
Jim Johnson will have to step up, since he's first in line to close out games. And we have no idea whether he has the stomach for it. Good stuff isn't enough, as so many relievers have demonstrated over the years (Timlin and Arthur Rhodes immediately come to mind).
By changing Johnson's role, Trembley also lost his set-up man in this trade. Danys Baez just became a little more valuable, assuming he isn't traded, as well. And it doesn't appear that talks are hot with any other teams.
Dealing Sherrill yesterday made sense. And it just made Trembley's job a lot harder.
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Categories (click for archive)Roch Kubatko | Roch Kubatko Orioles |
Great post Roch, more on it later.
But first, congratulations on one year at this blog.
Well done, and thank you.
You are the best source for everything O's and I think its safe to say your blog is a part of many many people's daily routines.
I'll gladly spend valuable company time on here anyday. Someone needs to come up with a stat to measure the drop off in productivity in offices when you post a new blog.
(Value of replacement worker over one reading Roch's blog) VORWOORRB? Not sure if that makes sense or can stick like WHIP or ERA.
Here's to another year of laughs and blogging the O's.
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Thanks Brummie. Much appreciated. I think VORWOORRB works as well as WHIP. My first MASN blog actually ran on Aug. 1, so I'll note the anniversary tomorrow. And yes, I do accept gifts. But as long as we're talking about great moments on this date, please join me in wishing my sister, Shawna, a Happy Birthday. - Roch
Roch,
When is there expected to be a corresponding roster move to fill Georgie's spot? I know McPhail mentioned Ray yesterday but I think it'd still make more sense to bring up Kam and not risk having Ray getting busted up anymore then he already his. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't considered shutting him down to play it safe.
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The move will come later today so they're not playing a man short. - Roch
Trembley makes his job harder all on his own. The guy is as stubborn as they come. Batting Mora in the 5 spot for way too long. Keeping Huff in the 3 and 4 spots and playing him everyday even when he's not hitting. Benching Wieters way too often and stopping him from finding his stride. Allowing Samuel to send runners to home plate when the ball is all ready on it's way home. Pulling pitchers with less 100 pitches who are having a good game. Sending Albers into the game with less than a 3 run lead. Not holding players accountable for lack of hustle...the list goes on and on. He really is the worst manager in major league baseball.
Loved the Pinto remark, My first car was a 6 year old blue Pinto, I did not have the shiny hubcabs, But had one hell of a kick ass sound system for those days..Thanks for the good memory!
Could point Roch, it will be harder to judge Trembley. But I think he can still be critiqued on any lack of fundamentals and questionable lineups. He should be given a free pass if whoever is closing blows it.
I still think we will see one more deal today. Maybe Baez for a PTBNL, which will turn into cash. Bring up Kam to replace him.
I like the trade. We are very thin in position players, especially 3b. ESPN loved the trade for us, which is a plus.
I have to admit that I am not crazy about this trade. Granted, a closer may be a luxury in a sense on a last place team. I am not confident that JJ can do the job since he's struggled this year...I hope he proves me wrong. Most of all, I realize we are in a rebuiling phase, but these guys we got back may not even be able to help us next year and I thought next year was the year we were supposedly going to turn things around?
Whats the deal with Jim Miller? Wasn't he tearing up triple A league? Shouldnt we be calling him up?
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We'll probably see him at some point this summer, but don't think it'll happen this soon. - Roch
This was a quality trade, we fill a need in the organization by getting a young 3b prospect and get another quality pitching prospect to add to the depth of pitching in the organization. I don't think a lot of people realize that teams were looking at Sherill as more of a set-up guy/situational lefty then a closer and that hurt is value and I think the O's got the most value for Sherill they could
It'll make Dave's job a LOT harder if Baez gets dealt. Not hyping him up but he is a veteran bullpen arm. You lose George and Baez, your're prayin to god Ray, Kam and probably even Hendrickson step it up big time.
Congrats and Happy Birthday to Shawna!
I'll tip a few for the both while I'm melting in 300 degree temps after work!
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But it's a dry heat... - Roch
Roch:
If the young starters don't want to see their efforts wasted, here's a novel idea...throw complete games!
(I know it is not that original a concept, Nolan Ryan is trying something similar to that in Texas...well at least one more inning.)
Seems like Bergeson is almost there anyway. All that needs to happen is increasing the pitch efficiency of some of the other pitchers.
hey Roch, so what do you think happens to Justin Turner at this point? maybe they try him out at SS for Norfolk next year or flip him in the off-season as part of another trade?
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He could move around the infield and become a valuable utility guy. I'd like to see him more at SS. - Roch
I'll see your pinto & raise you two AMC Pacers!
I know Roch. Just thought I'd get my congratulations in early (and while we're on a winning streak).
As for the trade, it makes sense, but I think there are still question marks surrounding each guy. They are not sure things like Tillman, but they add bodies and competition to the minor league level.
Bell is going to need to work on his fielding. He was TERRIBLE at 3b in years past. 38 errors in 2007 I think? If he does not improve he has the makings of a career DH.
Sherrill is replacable. The veteran angle might be one of the more underrated stories to come out of this trade. It's like anything else in life though. One guy leaves or goes down, next man up. Johnson is the next guy up.
I've really enjoyed the information and your perspective over the past year.
I like the sound of both the players that we got back, but it still seems a little light when you're talking about two and a half years of George on the relative cheap, plus the two draft picks the Dodgers are going to get in a couple years if they don't resign Sherrill.
It makes sense to give J Johnson a chance to close to see if he's up for it after sputtering a little recently, but I'm more concerned that this move indicates the organization feels the rebuilding will continue until 2011, giving us next year to sort through our bullpen while Snyder and Bell develop in Norfolk.
Are we going to go after a closer or a LOOGY this offseason?
Its time to stop crying over Trembley having a difficult job. He's done so little right this year. He's benefited from a pretty good hitting line-up. That's it. He has yet to figure out how long to leave starters in, when to replace relievers, and/or how to handle his bench. And how does he sit Weiters after the 4 hit game when he finally might be finding his stroke/timing? The pitching staff has been bad at best (Bergy excluded) but Trembley has managed this team to a worse record than they should have. He's dug this hole he's in and I don't see him coming back next year.
Hey Roch,
Ouch! I had a '73 Pinto. I got it as part of the deal for daytona girl back in '77. Everything I know about fixing cars I owe to that piece of junk. The Pinto that is, not daytona girl.
I appreciate everything George Sherrill has done for the Orioles the past year and a half, but I really don't think we'll miss him. In fact, I never felt comfortable with any lead when he came into a 9th inning situation. His numbers don't support that feeling, I'm just saying. And JJ will do fine.
My breakout player in the 2nd half is Aubrey Huff. I know the last couple of days makes that an easier thing to say, but it just makes sense that with his situation, attitude and skills, he should be able to put together a real good rest of the season.
See you tomorrow night, Roch & everybody. Pilgrimage weekend. However, due to having lost a bet, I have to wear a Red Sox hat. Photographic evidence required. Apologies.
Roch,
Given how hard Bergy was nailed yesterday and considering the number of (highly stressful) innings he has thrown already this year, even if its "only" a deep bone bruise, doesnt it make sense to 15 day DL him? That would let him skip 2 starts to heal and also limit the innings for the year. I think we need a roster spot for Ray or Safarte anyway as their rehab assignments end right? You could always bring up Waters or Patton to make 1 spot start given that they are already on the 40 man and then use either one of them or Hendrickson/Bass to make the other.
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That's certainly a possibility. I can't see him making his next start no matter what. - Roch
HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHAWNA! How's it feel to have such a wonderful, caring, smart, suave and generally all around good brother? Roch, I hope you got your sister something really good for her birthday! (And not something with the word "Orioles" written on it!)
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Thanks Tim. I remind her every day. Yes, I bought her something special. And no Orioles freebies! (though Christmas is right around the corner). - Roch
As much as I think DT is a good person and a good baseball guy I'm afraid that he has already shown his ability to manage a big league club. I think we all knew that a lot of changes were going to be necessary to make this team a winner again. Unfortunatey, that includes the manager.
Tom said it before I could: if our pitchers started taking their game into the seventh and eight more often they wouldn't have to be at the mercy of an untested bullpen.
Any chance the trade with the Sox involving Pie for Fields might be back on? With Gathright and Fiorentino doing well at Norfolk, I think they both qualify as a 4th OFer. Pie is a part of the 2009 team, but not the future, Fields might be.
Roch,
Job well done on the blog. Providing the space for collective suffering amongst us has eased the pain of another tough season.
Blog-related question: Do you ever miss writing columns for the newspaper?
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I certainly don't miss the grueling deadlines and trying to operate a blog while doing 12 other things. But I do occasionally miss doing more extensive "writing." I was actually a little nervous about writing the Baseball America piece because it's been so long since I did anything like that. Was afraid I'd be rusty. - Roch
Roch,
You really brought light to how hard it is to manage in the ML with this post. You are only as good as the players your GM either gives or takes from you.
I wanted to follow up on the post that Brummie made at the beginning of this blog. Although there are differening opinions here, we all want the same thing...for the O's to be contenders and play respectable baseball. There is NO ONE in the local media who brings forth the effort you do each and everyday to keep us updated with accurate and timely information.
So hats off, keep up the good work, and all the other kudos for a job well down.
Now to DT. He makes his job harder then what it has to be with the bone head moves he makes. He also tends to open his mouth with either dumb or arrogant remarks. I dont see DT guiding this team past this year. So let him ride out the wave and lets hope he doesnt see yet another 2nd half collaspe.
Roch,
Actually, from their stats, I prefer Steve Johnson over Scott Elbert. Elbert's career BBs per game is almost 5. Johnson's, while not good, is much better at 3.5. Elbert has better K numbers, 10.4 to 8.8 per game, but Ks are over rated anyway and the BB to K ratio is completely meaningless. I agree with Crash Davis, "Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic." AMEN!!!
Do you know if most of Josh Bell's errors are fielding or throwing? The bad years were 2006 and 2007. However, I can't find any fielding stats for this year other than 17 errors in 94 games, no fielding pct. I like his career on base average, 75 points over his batting average, 90 points over so far this year.
Ben Pockros mentioned Jim Miller, I wonder how many readers remember he was acquired from Colorado for Rodrigo Lopez. It looks like the other pitcher in that trade, Jason Burch, is out of baseball now. No stats for this year or last.
Alan
Roch, any comment on the rumor of hendrickson to the rockies?
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Only know that they're interested in him. Don't think he'll bring much in return, however. - Roch
The reality is that we do NOT have a 3B in the wings and we needed one badly. Sure, losing Sherril hurts, but acquiring a ML closer is A LOT easier to do than acquiring a young, quality, corner IF prospect. We may have created another hole, but the it's an easier hole to fill.
Let's say we don't get a 3b prospect, your FA 3b class is headed by.... Adrien Beltre.
This trade had to be done. Good luck to ya Georgie Boy, all you did was take the ball and never complain. Stay classy!
steve in phx said:
It'll make Dave's job a LOT harder if Baez gets dealt. Not hyping him up but he is a veteran bullpen arm. You lose George and Baez, your're prayin to god Ray, Kam and probably even Hendrickson step it up big time.
July 31, 2009 10:13 AM
Agreed. Baez for sure becomes much more important than some 26-28 yr old AA player they might get for him in trade at this point.
Hey Roch, since I probally won't be able to be around a computer tomorrow, Happy Anniversary!...also, it seems that the experts think that the trade is either an equal one, or the O's got the better end of it...the only ones that I've seen complain that we didn't get enough are O's fans...I'm content with it because our scouts have gone out and watch these guys, especially Bell, for two months now...if they saw something wrong, then these two players wouldn't have been in the deal
Don't need no "oh, woe is me" pep talk. If they go out and totally bomb in August and September as in years past, there's a helluva lot more wrong than just losing Sherrill. And Trembley and MacPhail should be judged accordingly. It comes to a point where enough is enough and you have to show "some" improvement.
Roch:
who is being recalled to take Sherills place in the pen? The Sun said it will be big Kam, who I think is going to be a stud!
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I speculated on Kam yesterday. I think he's the guy. - Roch
Happy Birthday to Sister of the World's Greatest Blogger! She should also post more often.
Brummie, Tillman wasn't a sure thing either. There really is no such thing as a sure thing with baseball prospects, which is what makes baseball trades so difficult to judge, and players to value. What I like about the trade is that McPhail identified a team that could fill a huge need of ours, and made a deal. I'll miss George, and of course only time will tell if this actually is a good deal, but right now, I like it
Trembly will be judged by McPhail and how well he carries out the plan. This team is not built to win unto 2010 or 2011 so Trembley will not have to answer to wins or losses.
He will be judged on the progress of the young players. If he mishandles that job he is gone
Roch,
First I wanna thank you to advising me to make the trip from Richmond to the Yard to see Tillman's debut despite the weather the other day. It was obviously the right move.
A little off-topic here but I was wondering if you had heard anything lately about Montanez's injury status and if he returns to the majors at some point this season. I'm anxious to see him back in an O's uniform.
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I'm hoping to talk to him soon. He isn't expected back before Sept., but it's time for an update. - Roch
Minor league infields are notoriously bad, so I'm reserving judgement on Bell's defense until he gets here where we can see him. It would be interesting to know what kinds of errors he makes (bad throws, bad footwork, bad hands). Some people have suggested that Huff or Wigginton move to 3B full time, and I don't consider either one of them good 3B. Huff is clumsy and looks like a goalie, while Wigginton displayed bullfighter defense (ole!) early on. If and when Bell hits that well, we'll live with his defensive foibles as well, especially considering that Izturis or Davis will be playing SS and provide some range cover for him.
Roch, I'm glad you're here. You were the best sportswriter in town when you were at the Sun, and you're still the best. Just one time I want to be listening to the radio while you're in studio and hear you tell Anita to "just shut up already".
I'll see your Pinto and raise you one Chevy Vega....and for those who like it hot, throw in the black vynl interior.
Roch
Thx for all the info and congrats (tomorrow) on the 1 yr anny of your blog. Good times.
On orioles.com it still says Rich Hill is pitching on Sunday--who do the O's have in line for that start? Maybe a spot start by Bass or Hendrickson? thx
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Don't have game notes in front of me, but I'm thinking Berken, since he would be working on normal rest. Definitely not Hill. - Roch
I wish we could have got Brandon Wood back for Sherrill, but it looks like the Angels weren't willing to part with him. Here's to hoping Josh Bell fufills his potential.
Thanks & well done Roch.
Most of all thanks for putting up w/ angry O's fans tired of 11 years of losing
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I hope we're all around to have one huge party the night they clinch a playoff berth. - Roch
Hey Rochet bro, been scooped lately? Just kidding bro. You da man around The Land of Pleasant Living when it comes to the O's bro. No offense intended. You have big muscles, are good-looing, and have nice, white teeth.
The problem I have with those criticizing the trade is that they make these bold pronouncements that the two prospects will never make it, are terrible, etc. They have no basis for making these assertions. I bet none of them have even seen either of these guys play. Those who like the trade, including me, are not saying these guys are sure things--there is no such thing--but we are saying there is good reason to think they have a good chance of success. Both are young and continue to get better and are having success at AA (arguably the hardest step up in the minors). Bell is hitting for more power, making fewer errors and in better shape. Johnson throws low 90's and is striking out more than one per inning. His numbers compare favorably to guys who were at AA last year for us and now are in our rotation. I don't think there is any genuine debate that we got real value with two legit prospects in exchange for a 30+ year old reliever.
One could perhaps more legitimately debate the propriety of trading Sherrill at all. He was solid and was under our control for awhile yet. But, given that he was only a relief pitcher and was the best thing we had to trade, I think a team in our position, with a chance to add a good prospect at a position of need, plus an arm, had to do it. Way to go Andy.
So lots going on since I've been traveling, partying, watching concerts and now heading to B'More in a couple of hours. Great job indeed, looks like there's a lot to catch up on before I head to the park.
At least Smoltz is pitching again, I think we have a good shot at getting to him early again. Can't wait!
Maybe the lack of a closer will cause the starters to be more economical in their pitch count and try harder to go 9 innings. These starts with guys throwing 70-80 pitches just to get through the 4th doesn't cut it. At least with some of the newer starters the Orioles might have a chance. Lets start making a quality start be 7 innings with 2 runs or 8 innings with 3 runs. Anything less than 7 innings isn't a quality start.
Cereal Blogger said:
Thanks & well done Roch.
Most of all thanks for putting up w/ angry O's fans tired of 11 years of losing
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I hope we're all around to have one huge party the night they clinch a playoff berth. - Roch
*** Already have money stashed away for that specific trip back to the VA/MD/DC area ***
BOOM!
The Troll said:
"He also tends to open his mouth with either dumb or arrogant remarks".
So do you.
July 31st. Almost one year for Roch and I finally read a post, make that two post from Brummie that I can agree with.
A note about the trade that nobody has mentioned yet, even though it's very important to understanding it.
Sherrill is due for arbitration the next two years, which means he'll command about $10 M over the next two seasons, whereas we had been paying him MUCH less. Combine this with the calculation that Sherrill's value is roughly its peak right now, since he's coming off an all-star season last year, and has been very solid this year as well. What do I mean? Listen, I think Sherrill is a very good relief pitcher, and he's an ideal left-handed set-up man for the late innings on a contending team, (apparently the LAD thought so too). But (and I don't think I'm alone here) I never really thought he was lights out closer material on his own. Frankly, I feel like he performed at a level well over his head for the last two years. There were many times when the independent-league Sherrill would shine through (the second half of last year, the spring and start of this year, the 5-run Red Sox lead this year), but for the most part, Sherrill has been able to pull himself together and put up 1 2/3 very solid seasons for us. But the odds of him maintaining this level of performance until next July 31 are, in my opinion, (and probably in Andy's as well), very slim. Plus, his salary will be at least $4M next year, and who is going to want to eat that PLUS give up two solid, if not absolutely top tier prospects, for him then? The answer is nobody. So it makes sense to trade Sherrill now, to take the money and run so to speak.
Sherrill was the 3rd most valuable player in the Bedard trade, and yet he performed beautifully over the last 1 2/3 years. Andy traded him at the right time, and the youth movement continues. Hats off to you 'Brim Reaper, and good luck in LA!
I'm hearing that the Tigers are interested in Luke Scott but it's taking a lot to acquire him. But, I also thought it would take a lot to acquire Sherrill and I'm not too sure that what we got was "a lot" or an "overwhelming offer" in exchange for him.
If we're going to give up a hitter, make it Huff and not Scott.
Sure we need to move some people to get pieces for the future but that starts to change when the pieces start getting moved. I was thinking Sherrill was the closer of the future and was a key part to the progression of this team. But now that we could have a potential 3rd baseman, now we're short a closer.
So we take one step forward and two steps back.
I loved George Sherrill as an Oriole and I wish him the best of luck as a Dodger. At least he'll get to experience the playoffs.
Roch-
Off topic, but I am interested in your opinion.....how about bringing Tejada back at 3b next year? He'll come for a lot less money......
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That ship has sailed. - Roch
Thanks to all for the birthday wishes. I so enjoy your posts and your obvious appreciation of Roch’s talents. I’ve always been tremendously proud of Roch, the Master Blogger (can I say that?), but more importantly, Roch the son, brother, dad and friend.
Roch, I love you and will be missing you this weekend in Ocean Pines. My present isn’t coy-colored, is it?
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Love you too! And don't underestimate the appeal of coy! - Roch
Rob Neyer REALLY likes the Sherrill deal:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-4-126/Orioles-turn-reliever-into-prospects.html
Roch any chance the Orioles make any moves??? I heard Tigers are interested in Luke Scott is anything brewing there???
Tim Puff said:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHAWNA! How's it feel to have such a wonderful, caring, smart, suave and generally all around good brother? Roch, I hope you got your sister something really good for her birthday! (And not something with the word "Orioles" written on it!)
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Thanks Tim. I remind her every day. Yes, I bought her something special. And no Orioles freebies! (though Christmas is right around the corner). - Roch
July 31, 2009 10:38 AM
Notice he didn't rule out MASN stuff.... :-)
terpfan said:
The problem I have with those criticizing the trade is that they make these bold pronouncements that the two prospects will never make it, are terrible, etc. They have no basis for making these assertions. I bet none of them have even seen either of these guys play. Those who like the trade, including me, are not saying these guys are sure things--there is no such thing--but we are saying there is good reason to think they have a good chance of success. Both are young and continue to get better and are having success at AA (arguably the hardest step up in the minors). Bell is hitting for more power, making fewer errors and in better shape. Johnson throws low 90's and is striking out more than one per inning. His numbers compare favorably to guys who were at AA last year for us and now are in our rotation. I don't think there is any genuine debate that we got real value with two legit prospects in exchange for a 30+ year old reliever.
One could perhaps more legitimately debate the propriety of trading Sherrill at all. He was solid and was under our control for awhile yet. But, given that he was only a relief pitcher and was the best thing we had to trade, I think a team in our position, with a chance to add a good prospect at a position of need, plus an arm, had to do it. Way to go Andy.
July 31, 2009 12:18 PM
It's good to see Mrs MacPhail join in the discussion....
MLBTraderumors is reporting that the Tigers are seriously after Luke Scott. O's are asking a lot, apparently.
Most people understand that trembley is no going to be judged on wins and loses, but based on what he is being judged on, is he doing a good job?
We do have a number of developing and solid player, but there are also a bunch of problems. A number of our bats under are performing/inconsistent and our base running is terrible and people run on us. We do not bunt to move runners around the bases. We really don't play great baseball. We kinda just hope we hit in bunches and let the chips fall where they may.
I love everything Trembley says to the press and stuff, but I am not sure he is doing that great of a job on the field. Am I completely off base with this or what are your thoughts about Trembley as our manager?
Luke Scott to the Tigers????? NOOOO LLUUUUKKKEEE!!!!!!
Would Jeff Larish and a left-handed pitcher, preferrably a left-hander, be enough for Luke?
It looks like the O's are done dealing. Its a shame they couldnt find takers for Baez. I would have traded him for low level prospect(s) just to drop his salary & add a little depth.
I still dont understand why there is no interest in Huff. It was the same last year when he was hitting. He's a solid vet & his contract is up. I dont get it? Does he have a bad rep as a party guy around the league?? I have heard that before??
I understand why nobody wants Mora, he looks done.
Roch: I do not know if you agree with me but I think the time for baseball to consider a salary cap it now. Since the Nationals were placed in Washington D.C., the move transformed the Orioles from a meduim to a small market team. We can dream all we want about the Oriolies becomming a contender, but we know the 800 pound Groillas are always in the market. The large market teams, Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Dodgers, Angels, Tigers ect. The facts are the Orioles can delvop as many players as they want, but they will not be able to sign them when they reach their prime playing years. We will sign a few and the Yankees( and others) will out bid us for the services of the best of them. No matter how good the management, it is a fact that fans do not want to admit the fact of what unlimited revenue scorces are doing to medium and small market teams. The Yankees tax for going over the limit of 200m is enough to pay the Orioles payroll for a year and a several other teams. The Orioles could try to compete by increasing ticket prices out of the reach of current fans or cotinue at the the status-quo and allow fans to pay for a inferior product.
The ecomonic crisis will exacerbate this problem because local and state governments may be forced to call in the chips in subsides of baseball teams with renogatated leases for parks increasing operating costs. Unless a salary cap mandated, many small market losing team will fail because fans will get wise to what is happening and realize their favorate team does not have a chance to succeed. Yes Tampa won the AL penant but look what happended to them against a large market team. Are they contending for the AL East crown? Even the Twins are now selling thier best players and have not been in contention for an AL Pennant for a few years.
The problem is getting worse because teams such as the Yankee have make mockery competitve caps established to help small market teams.
So Brian, do you think it was a bad trade or are you just an a$$hole?
Tim in CA said:
A note about the trade that nobody has mentioned yet, even though it's very important to understanding it.
Sherrill is due for arbitration the next two years, which means he'll command about $10 M over the next two seasons, whereas we had been paying him MUCH less.
I alluded to that pt & AM's possible primary motivation to make that trade this morning in Roch's last blog from yesterday evening.
You just proved who the @sshole is with that thin skinned reply. Moron.
I posted in detail about the trade earlier.
Roch & Fellow Classmates,
Roch - I read your piece for Baseball America, and concluded that you are the "Rustoleum Kid" -- you haven't lost a step; it read so much like a newspaper article, when I was finished, I swear my fingers were ink-stained.
Roch & FCs - Now, for a late-breaking report. At least two of our students got into a dustup with kids from another blog. Lucky Horseshoe and terpfan were subjected to a brutal barrage of nasty posts. Not surprisingly, they acquitted themselves vigorously and effectively. I am proud to call them schoolmates.
There are many O's fans who are enraged, as only baseball fans can be, because, they assume, Andy MacPhail forgot all he ever knew, and traded for two "unknowns."
If Johnson closes,Meredith in the 8th,Baez,Albers,Hendrickson6-7th,Bass2-5th
Tim in CA,
Totally right. Sherill's value was at its absolute APEX right now. It was the right move to trade him. I actually think it's the right move to trade Luuuuuuke too... but not if we don't get enough in return. Go O's.
I agree, Roch.
Given the choice of selecting a closer between an RP with good stuff vs. an RP with makeup, I'd take the makeup everytime. Sherrill exemplifies that. I think something mentally happens to a pitcher, when an inning doesn't turn into a perfect inning, and pressure starts to mount. I think what experts refer to as "makeup" for a closer can be summed up as how they handle stress. Most often any trouble a closer runs into is self-inflicted. Can that pitcher forget the mistakes they made to put them in that spot, and still perform?
What I think people need to realize is that Sherrill is a good pitcher but he is not really a "closer." You're not going to fool other team's scouts of that. They know very well what kind of pitcher he is. He is a good pitcher with good deception who bulldogs through innings, dominates lefties, and he's done a great job of collecting saves in a very tough division. We just saw Soria and soon we will see Nathan. Those guys have elite stuff and dominates batters into 1-2-3 innings. You can easily justify giving up 2 top prospects for those players. With Sherrill it's a debate. If you watch his saves, he tends to collect saves with strategic walks, duct tape, and spit. His save total is a credit to his makeup, but he's not a closer in the usual sense of the label. What makes this trade an eventual win for the Os is one thing:
Josh Bell.
He has the chance to be a superb 3B who can hit in the middle of the order at an above-average, maybe All-Star level. Receiving a Berken/Bergesen-esque sleeper prospect on top is a great aspect too. The Os scouts have been pretty good at identifying sleepers under Jordan.
This thread is now a couple back so nobody'll see this, and I didn't bother reading all the posts, but your Pinto and hubcaps line reminded me of a true story. Guy I met through a mutual friend a few years back was trying to talk me into buying $400 rims to put on my 8-year old Dodge Omni. Not quite a Pinto, but close enough. I of course politely declined his offer.
So are Birds fans supposed to have any sympathy for Trembley's "harder" job cause he traded Sherrill?
Not from me. So what if other teams wanted Sherill. The Orioles needed George the most which is why the Birds traded for him.
So now what? Who's the new closer? I've read it may be Jim Johnson but has he proven himself to be one?
For anyone who wants a major league front office job... Today is the day I want them to shadow me for just one hour. The team I work for, this week, has traded a Cy Young winner and a 2x AllStar. Try defending that to the casual fan who doesn't understand or appreciate what prospects bring to the table. I came into work prepared to defend today's trade and am worn out. I imagine this is like talking to Jack all day long.
Someone please go to the game tonite and have a beer for me.
Roch, once again I'm an idiot. Re: Sherrill having "the guts of a burglar" I read "the gut of Hamburglar". Which works, too,I guess. Probably not the angle you were going for though.
I agree, it's not fair to judge him by wins and losses right now with this group. I don't expect this team to be competitive right now. What I do expect, however, is for him to make sound decisions, and I have to say that in this regard I believe he's a sub-par manager.
Trembley was a career below .500 minor league manager. It's actually amazing that he got this opportunity in the first place. I see things that could cost this team wins when it is, finally, in a position to contend. Poor baserunning. Guys heads not in the game. Far too frequent hit-and-runs (with a low success rate) and not enough sac. bunts. This team is incapable of manufacturing runs, and when it is a contender it will have to in tight games.
I believe that having a talented team with a manager like Trembley running it is kind of like the opposite of your analogy, Roch. It's like putting dirty, busted up hubcaps on a new Ferrari.
I think MacPhail should make KyleProBoller manager since he obviously knows everything.