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Hmmm. I like Trembley, but is he getting afflicted with some Veteranosity here?

Rich Hill is starting to sound an awful lot like Ben "Did I tell you about all my injuries yet?" Roethlisberger.

Roch,

Didn't they perform a physical on Hill before they traded for him??? I would think a torn labrum might come up during that examination. This all sounds really fishy. Either Hill is lying, the Orioles are lying, or the Cubs pulled a fast one on the O's and MacPhail didn't do his due dilligence on that deal.

Now Rich Hill has a tear. By Friday he will have the Black Plague! What other excuses can this clown come up with?

This shows what kind of players Andrew likes to bring here. Guys who lie and hide injuries, and most importantly, guys who come CHEAP!

Man up Rich. You didn't cut it here. Own up to it and accept a demotion to the minors or a waiver.

The O's medical staff could not have missed such an injury. Either the team doctor was distracted or Hill is making all of this up. I doubt the former.

So that means hill was injuried before the orioles traded for him. They should just release him for not being truthful. Now it's apparent why he could only hit 88 on the radar gun. Andy you better do your homework a little better the cubs knew he was hurt why didn't you.

Roch, what is your opinion on the alternative of playing Wieters at DH? Do you rule that out on the off chance Zaun gets hurt and we lose the DH? Don't the Twins do this a number of times during the year to keep Mauer's bat in the lineup while giving him a break from catching?
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I'm fine with having him DH, but yes, you leave yourself thin behind the plate. It's a risk. - Roch

Roch do you get the feeling that anyones angry at Hill for not mentioning this labrum thing? I mean isn't that kind of like lying to the orioles and then going out there and hurting the team? Just wondering if you sensed any frustration over the dishonesty or if maybe this whole things a bunch of smoke and mirrors to keep him off the mound for a while? Reminds me of when Kris Benson was here, that really ticked me off.
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I haven't talked to anyone about it, but I can't imagine that Trembley appreciated hearing about this from a reporter. At least that's how the whole thing comes off, that "torn labrum" wasn't in the injury report. But again, I don't know for certain. - Roch

Roch,

So if he had that injury before he got to the O's, how many people can we blame? Starting with the doctors who did the physical to the trainers who didn't notice anything different.

OR

Is Hill lying?

I'd cut him if I were running this organization. Then again, I'd cut myself for some of the knee-jerk moves I would have made after other frustrating losses.

I know many fans who are quickly becoming disillusioned with this season...Tillman or no Tillman start tonight. I think it may be time to sink my interest back in to college and pro football.

Torn labrum? Before he got here? AM dealt for damaged goods? He got screwed by the Cubs or he knew? This opens up a lot of speculation to say the least!!! 60 day DL, try the 365 day DL if this is true. Also, why wouldn't Hill say something sooner, like in ST? Why rush to get here from rehab starts if he knew this? This doesn't pass the smell test.
This isn't like Albers who rehabbed & strengthened other shoulder muscles all winter to avoid surgery. Plus he let the team know!

Or how bout best of both worlds? Wieters DHing???

Does your reporter friend think Huff should be hitting 4th and Wieters not hitting DH?
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We didn't hit that topic, though he said he'd be fine with Wieters DHing. - Roch

Roch,
When we picked hill up, you interviewed him when he called in on the hot stove. That is funny, he never mentioned a torn rotator. He mentioned his back as the reason he pitched bad in Chicago.

Sounds like Hill is full of excuses and lacks the nerve to say
" I s@ck when it comes to pitching"

I hate to say it, sounds a lot like a pitcher we had here a while back. The one who had vanity plats that read 10k ARM.....Riley

Full of excuses for not being able to pitch at this level. This pitcher is now in the dodgers organization. Probably part of a deal to bring Sherrill to them....LOL

Why can't tonight's LU be:
Roberts: 2b
Jones: CF
Reimold: LF
Markakis: RF
Wiggington: 1B
Mora: 3B
Wieters: DH
Zaun: C
Izturis: SS
Tillman: P

Sit both guys (Huff/Scott) that are in a slump.

It doesn't really matter at this point.... we're going to be swept by the Royals!

Things could always be worse. At least the Orioles didn't trade their ace pitcher (and reigning Cy Young award winner) for 4 minor leaguers, two of whom are on the DL, one of whom is pitching at AAA with an ERA near 6.00, and all four of whom were rejected by the Blue Jays in a proposed trade for that team's ace pitcher. I'm just sayin' . . . .

What is Tillman's uniform number?
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54. - Roch

Trembley always has an excuse for moves like this. He shuffles the lineup on Sunday, they score 6 runs and win and he goes right back to the lineup that's lost 7 of 8 since the break. Wieters gets a four hit night and Trembley sits him. Pie performs well in his last few appearances and Trembley finds a way not to use him for weeks at a time. Huff and Scott are 0 for forever, mired in deep slumps and Trembley continues to play them daily and hit Huff 3 or 4.

This is how you lose to the team with the worst road record in baseball and to a winless Bruce Chen. You bench hot hitters for some arbitrary reason and continue to use a lineup and players who aren't performing night after night without accountability.

I understand the why Zaun is catching, but Wieters should have DH.

I do believe in Momentum its Newtons 2nd Law which is Force=(mass X Velocity)/ Time

and that is why Wieters has more force because he has more mass and a more velocity.

Roch,
Do you ever get as frustrated as us fans do?
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Sure do. - Roch

Roch,

Tons of buzz out there about Sherrill being dealt.
My, decidedly outsider, opinion ranks the odds at 70% that George is traded? What are your odds?
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As I keep saying, if the Orioles get everything they want, they'll trade him. But that's up to the other teams. Hard to post odds when you don't know what the other clubs are willing to do. Probably better than 50-50, but they need another executive to cooperate. - Roch

Leave it the Orioles to give Tillman #54, when we all know that #53 was available. Andy must go....!

Roch, not to point out the obvious, and I'm sure you have this in mind, but now that the Wieters thing has been answered with some decent logic, the exact nature of Hill's malady (and what body part it really is) deserves to be pursued. When did he know it, when did Bancells know, when did DT and Andy know. Things like that.

If Hill deceived the team, I wonder if there's a way to prorate his salary and recoup some of it.

Still think he should have picked 19. 54 doesn't exactly have a distinguished history with the O's. Maybe he can start one. From oriolesnumbers.com--yeah there is such a thing--

#54Believe it or not, the first Orioles player to ever wear #54 was pitcher John Habyan (1985-1987), who wore the number for the first three years of his career before switching to #27. Habyan started only 18 games in his eleven-year career; 13 of them came in 1987 when he won a career-high six games. He was joined years later by a former Atlanta Brave, reliever Lance Cormier (2008).
Two coaches have donned #54 for the O's: hitting coach Ralph Rowe (1981-1984); and pitching coach Leo Mazzone (2006-2007), who was unfortunately unable to translate his successful run with the Atlanta Braves to Baltimore.

The man that surrendered the fifty-four jersey to Mazzone was Sam Snider (1988?-2005). Snider was the longtime bullpen catcher for the Orioles, responsible for warming up pitchers and throwing batting practice. He toiled in relative anonymity for two decades, but must have been well-liked to stay around for so long. I remember the players voting him a share of the bonus money they received for making the playoffs in the late Nineties.

Going with Zaun makes plenty of sense to me. A call-up, likely quite nervous, pitching to another rookie isn't going to help matters. Zaun can, and is paid to, bring a sense of calm in a situation like this. It doesn't mean he's got to catch Tillman every start, just perhaps in this pivotal one. As for Weiters, his 4-5 night gets trumped by these other considerations. I and, I'm quite certain, Orioles brass, are fairly confident he'll have plenty of other 4-5 nights over the course of his career.

Bad number for a middle-of-the rotation starter. Wonder if it was his idea? 54 is not a classy number for a starter.

With the Hill controversy, the total team meltdown,the pressure on DT to save his job, etc, I don't expect you to run this down. I'm just saying.

Fans of obscure minor leaguers will be happy to know that the one-and-only Yamid Haad is back behind the dish for the Portland Beavers.

Andrew's plan is falling apart before our eyes.

He knowingly traded for damaged goods ( because they come cheap!) and hid the injury from the fans and media. This is not being honest.

OR he acquired a dishonest medicore player and is trying to do damage control now.

You can add DECEPTIVE to the list of traits we have for Andrew.

Not even the Kool Aid drinkers can defend this idiot now.

In any other company, you would be fired for this kind of lie. He needs to be held accountable for this mess. He needs to forced to explain the state of this team without resorting to the stale logic of " We're going to buy the bats and grow the arms."

Andrew has a plan and he likes to mislead us on it!

Has there been a corresponding move in AA? Who has been sent up from bowie?

Sorry if someone already asked this.
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No move has been announced. Will write it when I get it. Matusz definitely not involved at this point. - Roch

Roch, what would your regular lineup be these days? I'm looking forward to seeing what the kid can do tonight!
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Not sure there is a regular lineup at this point, with so many guys struggling. Hard to run Huff and Scott out there every day, though they could get hot at any time. And that won't happen from the bench. It's tricky. - Roch

Roch,

Did Trembley ever say anything about why he didn't choose to test Buck's arm (2 for 29 throwing runners out this season, just back from rehab and probably rusty) last nite in the 9th? Sure Pie isn't the most gifted base stealer yet, but 2 for 29 is brutal.
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Subject didn't come up. Lots of other stuff to talk about today. - Roch

Cereal Blogger, Brian, et al --

Please, please, please stop complaining that Mora is not yet traded. If I had to read as many posts about this as Roch does I'd have shot Brummie by now. (Where did THAT come from?) NO-TRADE CLAUSE.

NO-TRADE CLAUSE.
NO-TRADE CLAUSE.
NO-TRADE CLAUSE. (That means we can't do anything he doesn't want. Period. Not saying I like it, but I don't like a lot of FACTS. And before you open your trap to say, "but why not even try...", neither he nor McPhail are under any obligation to tell us if they've talked about it or tried to find a taker. So you don't know they haven't. But what should you know, and remember for the next time you spill your milk, is...)
NO-TRADE CLAUSE.
NO-TRADE CLAUSE.
NO-TRADE CLAUSE.

And actually, Jack, the bottom line, at this level, "progress" is NOT made in the win/loss column. Wins and losses are inherently REFLECTIVE of situations, not situations themselves. Nobody "progresses" in the win/loss column -- the win/loss column helps (and only helps, English) you to know IF you've progressed or not. You can only "progress" in the win/loss column through bribes.

But I thought you're creative lullaby was funny, nonetheless. Creativity always goes a long way.

OCJ -- weird that you said so, but after the initial distate I had the same picture in my head of All-American WSMVP Matt on a "Wieties" box.

Why number 54?

I really hope the O's win, Tillman does great and so does Huff, and Trembley makes us all look foolish. But I tell you what, the odds aren't in favor of that happening. Sooner or later Trembley has to cut Huff's playing time and when he does bat, for the love of Pete please move him down to the 7 or 8 spot on the lineup.

Loyalty is one thing, but not doing what you have to do to win and develop your young players is another. I HAVE NO IDEA why Trembley feels like he owes Huff so many chances. Even the Red Sox knew when it was time to sit Big Papi and move him down the order. Lets not act like Huff is some lifelong Oriole, he sure as heck aint Cal Ripken...SIT HIM!!!

How come they are not putting this game in HD? They switched the Wieters debut game to HD last time.

Win/win I guess... veteran presence and Zaun has really come on offensively.

Roch, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dannys Baez last year (year before?) reveal an injury way after the fact after being pummelled by opposing batters? Doesn't make sense to me that the O's organization wouldn't have x-rays and MRI's of all their players going into the season. Why let pitchers hide injuries? Only hurts the team.

"Rich Hill told a small group of reporters that he's been pitching with a torn labrum in his left shoulder, an injury that existed before he got here."

Whatever happened to PA's physicals before coming here?

Also, wonder if the Andy Marte with the Indian's AAA affiliate might be worth a flyer at 3B. Seems to have refound his stroke. He's a Minor League free agent at the end of this year. i'd rather keep Sherrill, and sign Marte than give awy Sherill for Bell who can't hit lefties. Any idea if we could do Baez and a prospect for Marte?

interesting argument? as don shula said during a dolphins game that got picked up on the audio. horsecrap. wieters is 23 yrs old. he should be able catch everyday of the week. plus tillman has far more experience throwing to wieters than to zaun. bottom line here is trembley is not the sharpest manager in baseball.

Roch,

I love your reporting, but.........

No, I do not believe in momentum in the case of baseball players and ONE day's performance. You should read the book "Freakonomics." There is no such thing as a streak. There is no relationship between getting four hits on one day and doing well the next EXCEPT that talented players bring their talent to the ballpark every day. The good ones succeed more often than the others. That is why they play more often. That has nothing to do with "streaks."

YOU are the guy who reported about Wieters icing a swolen hand after a game when he was just called up. Now you want to bring him back after eleven innings? Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Zaun is clearly the right guy to catch tonight. The argument for Wieters is overwhelmingly emotional...and there is no "emotional" in baseball, is there?
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Wow, Mark, you're connecting Wieters icing his hand as a precautionary measure after first coming up, to catching 11 innings last night? Are you serious? THAT doesn't make much sense to me. And yes, I believe in hitting streaks, guys getting hot. Happens all the time. I also say, quite often, that momentum is the next day's starting pitcher. I get that part of it. But if a guy is swinging a hot bat, yeah, I stick with him - though I know a catcher can't play every day. And I'm not basing my opinion on emotion, so you can remove that point from your arguement. Also, I don't have a huge issue with Zaun catching. I'm just saying that I'd have Wieters in the lineup tonight. But otherwise, I agree with you. - Roch

Roch, you must have the patience of a saint to read through so many negative blogs, especially on a day when we should be eagerly anticipating the first pitch of Chris Tillman. Patience is what we all need in times like these...now back to the Orioles.

"We believe whatever we want to believe." - Demosthenes

Trolls believe: Andy MacPhail is incompetent and see some evidence of the fact in his every move. Their incessant griping and axe-grinding actually has an effect on anything, aside from increasing the misery quotient on the blog.

Most believe: The sky is falling. We've been through so many years of losing that we're starting to see every move as the wrong move.

I believe: in objectivity. I don't mind Wieters on the bench tonight against arguably one of the top 2 pitchers in the AL this year, regardless of the 4-5 last night. Hill can sit on the DL for the rest of the season and most of next rehabbing his labrum. Huff and Scott need to hit their way out of their slumps. If either player is to be counted on in future seasons, they need to show their mettle. I trust a guy (Trembley or MacPhail)who has spent his entire adult life in baseball more to manage/run the team better than any one of us. Most of our bullpen arms are expendable. Sarfate, Ray, Mickolio, McCrory, Miller are all guys who could very easily replace Baez, Albers, Johnson, Meredith, or Bass next year. I wouldn't cry if any of the 10 of those names were traded at some point. That being said, it's also nice to have them down there in case of an injury.

Relax, be patient, don't feed the trolls, have a little faith. We certainly don't have any control on things and it's not worth getting our collective ladies' underwear in bunches.

Torn labrum eh? If the Cubs knew about it and didn't tell us, they're going to be in big trouble. But it kind of sounds like convenient excuses to me... Hill's delivery isn't repeatable, bum shoulder or not.

On another note, at least we'll get to see Wieters in a day game tomorrow. Maybe Trembley didn't want Wieters to slug through 5 rain delays tonight after his long night last night?

@Terpfan: The Twins sometimes carry a third catcher on their roster as insurance and go with *gasp* only 11 pitchers.

I hear his number was 18 .

Roch, regarding Stevo's question about you ever getting frustrated, I'd like to hear your response to the other side (sort of) of that question ...

During your tenure covering the O's, who has been you most enjoyable manager or coach to interview/interact with and why? Also, same question regarding Oriole player?

Thanks!
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That sounds like a good blog entry for a slow day. I'll come up with something for you. - Roch

Can't remember an Oriole pitcher who ever did anything wearing a number above 53...Sammy Stewart and Arthur Rhodes both wore that number. I guess one could make an argument for Alan Mills who wore 75. But 54?? Who was the last Oriole to wear 54?? For that matter, who was the last RAVEN wear 54?

It gon' rain.

Trembley didnt know about the tendinitis and now the labrum. Is Hill is own doctor?
what a character......

Dude KNEW he had a torn labrum BEFORE he got here? That means a few things…

1. The Cubs dealt us damaged goods.

2. Our training staff has a lot of questions to answer, starting with “HOW THE HELL DID YOU MISS A TORN LABRUM?”.

3. Why was Dave Trembley continuing to use a pitcher he KNEW to be injured to some extent?

My faith I had in our organization – coaches, the manager, MacPhail – is a little shakier than it was yesterday.

KPB,
Regarding the torn labrum...it's actually very difficult to diagnose. Even if they took an x-ray it probably wouldn't have shown up. You have to know the symptoms and then ask for an MRI and an arthrogram (a very painful procedure where they stick a needle deep into your shoulder to inject a dye that shows up on a scan). There is no way any physical would've included this unless he complained of the symptoms. Hill is absolutely at fault for not disclosing it if he knew, but there isn't any way the O's would've found out beyond his complaining of soreness.

Hill just gave me a great idea next time I don't put in a good day of work, just grab my shoulder and say ouch! Hey, the kid tried. He went out on a limb and gave us a few games.
Now bring Tillman on. Going against Zack will be more than a test of stamina and strength. Zaun is the best choice to catch. Dave is right. he's coaching this team and he makes the call. Let's just kick back and watch the "Magic Happen." I'm also crossing my fingers.

People are so funny. We gave up a PTBNL (aka nobody) for Hill and people still complain. Maybe he has an injury or not. But I love how people think the medical staff can tell someone has a torn labrum or any muscle/joint injury by looking at someone.

Class,
I've heard all the Sherrill rumors but what is another team going to give up for a 7th or 8th inning reliever? These teams already have closers. How much are they going to willing to give up? Not as much as OUR closer's worth IMO.

I don't get DT at all. Wieters can sit tomorrow. It's not like he's 40 something, he's twenty something (those were the days).

Hill's just being a good soldier w/ this injury thing. Taking one for the team...and his wallet.

Phillies made a great trade.

Ricchardi's got to be sweating bullets the Red Sox/Yankees go toe to toe for Hallady. Can anyone say ESPN News?

Roch,
Glad you mentioned Roberto Duran. He was the best boxer I ever saw. Simply unbeatable in his prime. I won a lot of money on the 1st Duran/Leonard fight from the locals who loved Sugar Ray. Didn't bet on the next one.

Well at least we don't have to wory about him coming back this year,Good news for Berken.Should be a nice rotation the rest of the way. Funny how things have work out where to current cream of the crop is starting. Was hoping to see a trade announced then I remembered it was McPhail running the team.Sherill or Bell would be fine by me.

Roch,
Am I blowing this out of proportion when I think the "tendinitus" turning into a "torn labrum" is a HUGE deal?

It basically means that someone was hiding something. It also means the Os traded for damaged goods (not a small deal among baseball officials). It throws the PTBNL part of the deal into question. The timeline according to Hill goes like this: He officially discovered that he had a torn labrum, a potentially career-threatening injury, on the 1st of the year. A month later the Cubs trade him to us. You can see how that looks from a distance. Though giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, one can understand why Hill might want to suppress that info in light of his precarious situation with his former club. If the Cubs knew about it though, how transparent and open were they about it with MacPhail? If Trembley didn't know, then it's unlikely that MacPhail would have kept such a vital piece of info from his manager.
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Let's wait for confirmation that there's actually a tear. - Roch

Roch,

The students are really worked up today. Tillman, the non-waiver trade deadline, and troll containment have produced a deluge of posts.

I am exhausted by trying to read every post -- my daily regimen to stave off early onset Alzheimer's.

Anyway, the point is, as others have posted, you truly do a remarkable day's work, everyday. Thanks.

Hatepaste said: "But I love how people think the medical staff can tell someone has a torn labrum or any muscle/joint injury by looking at someone"

True, not by looking at them, but for sure if they require an MRI for players they are trading for. My torn labrum was diagnosed with MRI. Seems like a reasonable pre-trade expense from that standpoint to me.

Class,
You can't always tell a torn labrum even on an MRI! I had a torn rotator cuff, and the doctor said 'It's possible you have a torn labrum also, but I won't know until I get in there. You can't always see it on an MRI.'

B_O...it's really hard to believe you make a living at 'journalism' when you write stuff like:
"He knowingly traded for damaged goods ( because they come cheap!) and hid the injury from the fans and media. This is not being honest."

"knowingly"?
That sounds a little over the line to me, but what do I know, I got a chemistry degree. I'm not a 'journalist'.

Jack, since I'm home from work today (my FO office job isn't a 12+ hr day when the team's at home, lucky you!), I was wondering how you were doing on the question I asked you to get back to me with. Do you need me to clarify anything for you? Since you like quizzes so much, I came up with a fun one for you!
Reasons you won't reply to this:
a) You don't read comments not posted by yourself or Brummie, thus you missed the question (It's okay to admit that!)
b) You are busy diligently researching video
c) You're afraid of girls
d) You're afraid no such video of what I requested actually exists, thus being outed as a fraud by a girl (one who has worked in a FO for two teams more than you have) is a little scary for someone like you, OR
e) Tom C was right all along.

Thanks, and hope to talk to you soon, Jack! :)
Lovies,
Ann Marie

Jeffry - thanks for your post. Well said, and I agree with you. I'm also strongly in favor of giving Trembley the whole year. Moving a guy here or there in the lineup is exceedingly minor (a random lineup is something like just over one win per year worse than a completely optimal one). The constant chorus of "why use this reliever here" isn't much different, especially when you factor in that guys need regular work and getting them into games at the right times for their roles is a heck of a lot easier when you've got a good team that's consistent. I've got my complaints - the baserunning has been terrible, defensively I don't think this team is living up to its potential, and I'd like some bench guys to get more regular work in the roles they're most suited to have - but the majority of what a manager does is the sort of thing fans never see. Trembley did a heck of a job when he took over for Perlozzo, and I believe he's earned the rest of the year.