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Roch,
I think Mora should be up there in the top 5. In some ways I think the ability and versatility he played with when he was younger is over shadowed by the consistent losing seasons. He definately had some solid seasons for the Orioles and he definately played hard. Considering he was just a throw in on the Mike Bordick trade Mora deserves credit for working hard and getting the most out of his abilities.

I still don't understand the logic. You want Eddie Matthews to play third base but you don't want to block Josh Bell. You can't have both. No power hitting third baseman is going to come to Baltimore on a one year contract. Why not throw Bell into the fire and if he is bad then Wiggington can fill in for 2010? Bell cannot be any worse than Mora was this year. Also, apparently from everything I've read Bell murders right handed pitching but can't hit lefties which would make him perfect for a platoon split with Wigginton.

I'm not sure where to rank Mora. Do you consider Cal a 3B or a SS? If Cal is a SS, who else have the Os had at 3B for more than a few seasons other than Mora. That is the one position where I cannot think of a long-term player (aside from Brooks, Cal, and Mora). If that is the case, Mora takes second place by default. And, although he is no Brooks, we will really miss his glove next season.

As for next year, I agree with Trembley. If we can get a genuine #4 hitter at 3B next year, suddenly we have protection in our line-up for Markakis and Jones. With both of them getting pitches, I would expect 20+ HR from each. Then you throw in the potential that Reimold and Wieters have shown, we would have the possibility of five 20+ HR guys next year. The other thing that a #4 hitter at 3B does is it gives us the opportunity to give Michael Aubrey a longer look at 1B. I really like what I have seen from him, and it seems he was beginning to develop that power stroke that was expected of him when the Indians drafted him.

well, it seems that Trembley is going to have a hard time finding a corner infielder like that out of this years FA class. The only guys out of the lists you posted a while back that have a chance for 90 or 100 RBI's would be:

Branyan (terrible OBP)
Delgado (really old)
LaRoche (only if he reverts to his steroid self)
Tejada (see all of the above)

But the outfield has quite a few that can fit those hitting requirements

Jason Bay
Johnny Damon (big year in front of Tex and at the band box, but could he produce in this lineup?)
Matt Holliday (is he a pure NL guy or was his time in Oakland due to no protection in the lineup?)
Manny Ramirez--if the Dodgers let him go, but not the same hitter anymore.
Hideki Matsui (see Johnny Damon)

Getting a left fielder would mean somebody is going to have to be moved to either DH or 1B or both. And Wiggington would start the year at 3B.

How much will Brandon Snyder's fall league performance do in determining what the O's do this offseason? If he goes back to mashing the ball, would they not go after anyone so as not to block him right out of spring training?
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He'll still have to impress them in spring training. I'm curious where he'll get most of his starts in the AFL. He played a lot of third base down the stretch at Norfolk. - Roch

Roch,

Thanks for the awesome blog during the season! Looking forward to School of Roch lessons on keeping the stove hot.

Do you think Trembley will keep Crow as the hitting coach?

No matter who mans the corners next year, doesn't it seem like the team as a whole needs to learn to work the count better? I feel like in the AL East, we are dead last in making the pitchers work for it. Secondly, yesterday's game winning bunts came 3 innings later than they should have. If Turner gets down a bunt in the 8th, Wieters scores on Luke's fly ball, then bring in the closer for the 9th. Yes, we won, but failing to do this when the opportunity presents itself taxes the bullpen over 162 games. What's your opinion of Crow staying or going?
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Just a guess, but I think he stays. - Roch

hey roch, are you a mac or pc guy?
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I've never been known for being PC, but I've been called the Mac Daddy. - Roch

Roch it was great to get to meet you during the 7th inning stretch on Saturday. I appreciate everything you have done for us bloggers, the Orioles, and all of the fans. You're a true hero, and I hope that next year, you can blog with a sense of optimism and hope for contention.

I try to read and blog everyday, even at school, and I love what you have done for the city of Baltimore and the fans. Keep it up, and look forward to discussing moves that will be made in the offseason, and the anticipation for Spring Training 2010 in Sarasota!

Have a great offseason, relax, enjoy it, because you deserve it!

See you next year man!
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Thanks for stopping up and saying hi. - Roch

Ranking Orioles 3B. When you think about it there is not many of them to list. Not exactly enough to name a top 5 but the top 4 are pretty darn good.

1. Brooks Robinson
2. Doug DeCinces.
3. Cal Ripken.
4. Melvin Mora.

Others that were just average.
5. Leo Gomez
6. Graig Worthington (Won rookie of the year)

I fear there maybe a revolving door at 3B. Say what you will about Mora but he did a great job holding down 3B. Lets hope the next man up does a good job.

If you believe that a power hitting third basement will add 25 games to you "Win" column then go get one. But I doubt that will mean that much. I'd rather go after a front line pitcher and even "Over pay" for that one. 2010 is not going to be the year we threaten the Yankees. Give Bell and Snyder another year of seasoning and they may provide what you are looking to do.

This was a good year for the Orioles. The growth of the team cannot be measured in wins but that does not mean there was no progress. I did not agree with keeping Trembly but I cannot argue that he got a fair chance. He did not but my problems with him is in how a manages a game. He acts like Brooks and Boog and Frank are going to win the game for him when they are long gone. He does not manage the game for the team he has on the field.

Mora is a fine man and a credit to the team and the game but his day is done. If Cal is your SS then Mora is the second best third baseman to ever play for the team.

Mora ranks in the 'oh yeah...he was an oriole' category. He was a good guy. He was paid well for his contributions and never needs to be mentioned again.

Let me put it this way: I've been watching the Orioles since 1993 (that's 17 seasons), and if you asked me to name all the Orioles players I associate with third base from those years, Melvin Mora is the only one I'd name. Of course there's Cal, but he's always a shortstop first and foremost in my mind. Maybe B.J. Surhoff, but he played everywhere and I remember him mostly in left field.

So, for those of us who are too young to have seen Brooks play, but old enough to only consider Cal Ripken a shortstop, Melvin Mora is probably the best Orioles third baseman we've had. Not sure where that puts him all time, but it's got to pretty high up the list.

Roch,

Certainly Melvin is at least behind Brooks and Cal, and most likely behind Doug DeCinces. He's ahead of Glen Gulliver and Todd Cruz and a cast of thousands who have played there over the years. He has had a fairly solid career here and done much for the community. I will miss him for the most part. Won't miss his jog to first on ground balls to the infield.
Thanks for the great work and I'll continue to read during the off-season.

Jim

Roch,
I would rank Mora 4th behind Brooks, Cal, DD and then Mora.

Nice to know Steve and you were axious to see Brummie. I can only imagine if I showed up...lol. And Dave Johnson actually mentioned us by name the other day too. I guess we are outcast because we openly critique the "plan" and fail to become "yes" fans with promoting Andrew's propaganda. Did you mention to these guys that we have toned it down lately at your request?

If Andrew puts together another All Star off season and doesn't sign 2 quality position players to go along with a top flight starter...Brummie, KP and I will not the be the only ones on here trashing Andrew.

One fan mentioned how empty the seats were yesterday. GOOD FOR THE FANS! Maybe the echo from the few chants were going all the way up to Ole Petes offices. The O's once had a proud organization. This owner ruined this. And to NOT have the players acknowledge the fans after the last game......as a manager, I would have told them, get your a@@es out there and show appreciate for the people who make this organization what it is, even if there is only a shell of what used to attend.

Just a poor ran organization from top down. When will this organization learn, the fans should come first, not egos, arrogance or perrenial fancy slogans!

Roch,

I have a suggestion for a topic. Who in the organization would you be willing to trade to get a big bat at 1st or 3rd? We are going to have to give up some talent to get talent. I think the following people are availble for a trade:

- Luke Scott
- Felix Pie (value is high and doesn't have a full-time postion)
- Troy Patton
- Sean Gleason
- Matt Angle

Who else do you have to choose from? Short list: George Kell, Doug Decinces, Craig Worthington, Leo Gomez, or the ever popular Floyd Rayford. Mora has to be no.2.

Will 2010 3B be the 2008 SS?? Roch, what do you think the chances of Justin Turner beating out Robert Andino for Utility IF are? Is that even a question?
Anyways, its always great to read your blog and even during the off season you still have quality posts. This is the only School that I would attend year round. Thanks!
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I think he has a chance. The Orioles don't consider him a candidate to start at 3B because he doesn't hit for enough power, and 2B and SS are occupied. And they LOVE Izturis' defense, so he's staying. I think a key for Turner will be showing that he can play the OF if needed. Andino can do it, so that adds some value to him. - Roch

In all honesty it has been a pretty weak position in the organization --after Brooks there is Doug DeCinces. and Mora--who else really qualifies as a quality 3rd basemen.

If they want Bell to play 3rd, then start him there in the spring. A power hitting 3rd baseman,isn't going to sign for just 1 year. And knowing the O's have someone waiting in the wings. Same as 1st base. Just throw Bell in the fire. Same as Snyder and see what happens. Rather do that, then see Wigginton at either position. I don't think I can stomach that for a whole season. I think Crowley should go. These hitters stayed in slumps for weeks. Most can't bunt. Or hit a breaking pitch. In fact, I thought that he needed to be replaced for the last 3 or 4 years. Trembley, talked as if not all coaches were returning. Hitting, 3rd base and bench coach, all should be replaced before spring 2010. But, that is my opinion, of course.

No votes for Todd Zeile or Chris Sabo?

Not many third basemen I can think of beyond Brooks, DeCinces, and Mora, and don't count Cal. I didn't see much of those frist two. Mora is definitely better than Leo Gomez, Chris Sabo, Tim Hulett, or Floyd "Pacman" Rayford.

To chime in on 3rd base, and not the rap group.
Who could meet that criteria?

Are we going to go after Hank Blalock? Management will try and sell him as needing a change of scenery to rebound to pre-injury production levels.

Does he meet the criteria?
At one point yes, but as the rap group might say, signing Blalock? Give it the gas face.

Cal didn't do alot as a 3B, and anyone who puts Decinces above Mora hasn't looked at the numbers. Or are you just talking most popular, because that's the only way Decinces could be better.

I would rank Mora above DeCinces but WAY behind Brooks.

I'm going to go with Todd Zeile as the top Oriole third basemen of all time. It was short lived, but he was magical.

Just kidding. Although, Todd Zeile was the man. I remember being at one of divisional series in 96 when he hit one of his three homeruns in that series. I was so far up in the left field nose bleeds that I thought the Yankees left fielder caught the ball and I started booing. Boy, was I embarrassed.

Os 3rd baseman ranking:
1 - Brooks
2 - DeCinces (great clutch hitter, still better defense than Mora)
3 - Cal (behind DeCinces because he moved to 3rd only at end of career)
4 - Mora

George Kell, before Brooks, was supposed to pretty good, but I have no idea where to rank him.

Trembley is hoping for Hank Blalock as FA from Rangers. From what I have read, they are able to replace him and will let him go. Bell can be promoted on his own schedule. He was hot in AA, but hasn't had a single AAA at-bat, so I would hesitate taking him North from spring training ubnless he is blistering hot in Florida. Bell and Blalock both might be able to handle 1B and 3B both.

Count on Blalock to Os. He will not be ridiculously expensive, so this is a good fit.

So far, there is no second best to Brooks. Melvin and DeCinces are tied for third. Even though Melvin had more time at 3rd for the O's than Decinces, I'm tempted to give Doug the edge, because he had the impossible task of following Brooks and he played in games that mattered. Still remember his great defensive play in the '79 playoffs against the Angels... after making the backhand dive, he had the presence of mind to step on the bag as he got up before firing to first for the double play. Melvin never had the chance to make a play that important.

Lindsay, how could you forget tony bautista? He's the O's #1 third baseman in our hearts.

But really, I agree, he held down the position for several years, won a batting title, and I give him credit for keeping Tejada from completely snapping.

Now that Mora era is (hopefully) over, people should stop dumping on him for his poor play in his last year or two, and start remembering the positives. At the very least, when he had his flock of kids, we got some play on sports center, which since '97, is hard to come accross.

Roch,

Why don't you link a FAQ to the blog? Then you only need to answers questions once and just refer to the FAQ for those who do not pay attention is class. First question: Who was the ptbnl in the Chad Bradford trade. Second question who is this career minor leaguer, Kash Konsiderations, who is involved in so many low level deals?

Mora Ranking among O's 3rd basemen:

Statistically, I'd have to go with the following:

Brooks
H Clift (1443 games, OBS .844, 769 RBI, 170 HR)
M.Mora (830 games, OPS .804, 485 RBI, 115 HR)
Cal Ripken (620 games, .745 OPS, 78 HR, 326 RBI)
DeCinces (858 games, .751 OPS, 107 HR, 397 RBI,)
J.Austin (1173 games, .636OPS, 172 steals, 293 RBI)

Cal played 620 games at 3B, Mora 830. So Cal is a legit 3B guy to have in the ranking. Cal gets the edge over Doug D because of a slightly higher HR and RBI per game played ratio. And maybe because he is Cal.

Jimmy Austin was a switchhitter who played 3rd for the team 1911-1929 (when OPS averages were significantly lower than modern day.)

Harlond Clift played 1934-1943. His best season was probably 1938 when he hit 34HR, drove in 118, batted .290, slugged .554, with an on-base average of .422. In 1937, he hit .306, with 29HRs, and drove in 118.

If you use anything other than hitting statistics, (fielding renown, team-playerness, championships, All-Star appearances, etc.) and if you count only Orioles and not Browns, then your list looks like this:

1. Brooks
2. N/A

But that is sort of cheating. Mora is not in the same league as Brooks (who played like he came down from a higher league). But Mora was pretty active in the community. And his stats put him at 2nd best if you don't count Clift. So, those of us who are not fond of Melvin just have to get used to it. For at least the next 10 years, we have to acknowledge that Mora was the 2nd best ever for O's third basemen.

Perhaps by 2020, we can put Bell or Snyder in that slot.

Roch, great work in a very trying season. Also, the discourse here probably was the worst to date, sorry you had to endure it.
Thank you for the daily news & updates!! I am looking forward to more of your stellar work the fall & in ST.

I was laughing at the prospect of extra innings during inning 8 in the last game of the year. I was flipping back to the game during TV timeouts of the football game. I can just imagine the conversations in each dugout & the press box. Hilarious situation!!

Mora is behind DeCinces if you ask me. DeCinces had to deal with replacing the man, no easy task.

They don't need a Figgins at 3B. It will probably be Wigginton. He's as good as anyone out there that is a FA & he is already signed. Maybe they make a trade? 1B seems to be more compelling. I am not sold on the inventory options there.

Hey Roch,
I the Orioles should have kept him for another season to give Josh Bell or Brandon Snyder another year to develope. They should also give Michael Aubrey more consideration at first base. He seems to be more in the Don Mattingly, Mark Grace vain, and they weren't to shabby. Have a fun offseason!!

In the 80s and much of the 90s, 3rd base was a revolving door of quickly forgotten players for the Orioles. Even when Cal played third for about 3 years or so in the late 90s, it was the end of his career, and his stats were not much better than Mora's were. Mora had 7 or 8 pretty good years hitting and fielding, and a couple of those years were more than just "pretty good." Since Brooks left, only Doug DeCinces comes even close to Mora in hitting, fielding and any sort of longevity. Mora isn't Brooks, he isn't Mike Schmidt, he didn't have the longevity of Gregg Nettles (although those two weren't all that different statistically in terms of hitting averages--and Nettles played on much, much better teams than Mora), but he was still a pretty good 3rd baseman, and stabilized a position that was problematic for many years and isn't at all easy to fill or play. If he had played on better teams, I would hazard a guess that his stats would have been much better too. I'd rate him 2cnd to Brooks in terms of Orioles 3rd baseman, considering Cal primarily as an SS.

I still think Mora has not played his last game as an Oriole. Who else is going to come here for one year? Either that or we suffer through a year of Ty Wiggington. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather have Mora.

Busy busy day here at work. Wow, Dave Johnson called us out on his radio station. "It is better to be feared than loved"

Anyways, a quick Mora story. Before going to Sliders to informally meet you Roch, we went to the players lot to see all the guys leaving. Out of all the guys on the team, only Mora and Sarfate came out to sign autographs. Mora allowed a fan into the players lot for a picture and to do some autographs. He then came out and signed loads of stuff for the fans and posed for a few pictures.

He then got in the car with his wife and kids. As he was leaving he stopped the car and again signed a few more autographs.

A true class act. It's been a topsy turvy ride with Mel Mo. But at the end of the day, he was a decent human being and a decent player.

If he can come back for $2m or $3m, I say go for it.

Jack: Yesterday was closing day, yet only 17,000 and change turned out for the Orioles. Sad really. I remember when closing day was one of the hottest tickets on the schedule. The fans all wanted to come out and cheer on the team one last time.

Not anymore......
Not with this regime firmly embeded in the Warehouse bunker.......

The players didn't even do a victory lap or anything else to thank the fans. The game ended and they couldn't get off the field quick enough.

17,000 at the last game. Wow. Seems like the faith in ANDREW's plan is a bit shaky. LOL

One side note: It was hilarious watching the lower bowl of the stadium fill up as the innings went on while the Upper Deck emptied. The OPACY butlers had no control over the situation. Seems like a lot of people bought the super cheap tickets and simply moved down or went and found their own seats just to stick it to Ole Pete. That's what we did and we ended up behind 3rd for all 9 innings.

Mora is definately ahead of Leo Hernandez and Floyd "Sugarbear" Rayford. I'd also put him ahead of Ray Knight and Todd "Where'd the ball go?" Zeile.

Mora was an All-Star and a Silver Slugger award winner, so he does have good credentials. I'd place him thrid behind Brooks and Doug DeCinces. If you count Cal as a third basemen, then he's fourth.

That's really not saying much since 3rd base was such a talent deadzone for most of the 1980s and into the 90's.

Mike!: I guess you don't remember the key error Zeile made in the 96 playoffs when he THREW THE BALL INTO THE GROUND!

Plus, he was here for about 15 minutes.

I'm surprised nobody has remembered Wayne Gross. He was better than several players mentioned. I'm not saying he was that great, but he sure could hit HRs on Sunday.

I know that a lot of people have been hard on Melvin Mora, but I will always look back on his time here with great admiration. It must have been hard for him with the lack of winning but it rarely showed when he was on the field. I am going to miss watching him play third base. He did it with hustle and heart.

Roch, ive read this [your] blog everyday for over 5 years and it was great to come out for 2 of the last 3 games and finally shake your hand.

Thank you for your generosity and hard work. I almost had you sign a baseball this weekend and add it to my O's shrine. I decided not to put us both through that embarrassment! ;-)
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I really enjoyed meeting you and the others. Thanks for stopping by, and of course, for reading the blog. And it would be my pleasure to sign a ball for you. I need to get a photo of you and Craig...With Dots. - Roch

I'm right there with you on the hubcaps buddy, they always seem like a good idea at the time ... shoulda stuck with Boh.

It's hard to explain Mora's demise this year, because he played quite well defensively. And his bat speed looked like it's the same as before. But hitting is a lot more than just bat speed; some other component of hitting went awry for him. It won't surprise me if he stages some kind of a comeback next year for whichever team he is playing. In the meanwhile thanks for the memories Melvin.

"Who would come here for 1 year"? Obviously we're not going after Chone Figgins or something. I imagine we're gonna go after a bunch of minor league signings and find a guy who sticks. I think we'll also throw in an injury risk (Joe Crede) or low risk high reward (Adrian Beltre) type guy on an incentive based contract.

Most of the potential 3B have baggage though. Mike Lowell hits well enough but he can't field the position anymore. You can't expect more than 300 at bats from Crede (although that might well be enough if you think Josh Bell will be ready by July). Beltre will be cheap and he's a good fielder but he's definitely not the "power hitting 25 HR guy" we want.

Sometimes it's surprising what kinds of players can be signed on minor league deals or really cheap 1 year deals. Guys like David Aardsma, Russell Branyan, Carlos Pena (when he first joined the Rays)... maybe we'll make another trade with the Cubs and get Jake Fox for a PTBNL or something.

No problem Roch, Maybe Craig...With Dots and I can come by and see ya Opening Day (or Opening Week, when your not busy). Hey, Ill even sign it for ya!

CRAIG

Get Prince Fielder and his 50 HRs in Camden Yards (and his 200 Ks).

Those of you that rank DeCinces ahead of Mora, please take a close look at the numbers each posted as an Oriole. It isn't close.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/decindo01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morame01.shtml

And Brummie, isn't that a long swim from England to "informally meet" Roch?

Since the Orioles don't have much history at 3B (partly due to Brooks longevity) you basically have Brooks, Cal (depending on whether you want to consider him a 3B), Mora and DeCinces. Unless you include St. Louis Browns into the mix (personally I wouldn't) like Baseball Reference does, in which case Harlond Clift would be 2nd or 3rd. He actually had 4 yrs of hitting more than 20 HRs with a high of 34 and this was back in the 1930s era.

What no Juan Bell or Fritz Connelly on the list...

@David: Up until this season, in which he was injured, he hit 25+ HRs for three straight seasons. He still doesn't have the plate discipline that I like to see, but his defense is good and if healthy, so is his power.

@Drewdy: The most times Prince has struck out in a season is 138. That was this year. However, he also walked 110 times. Plus, over the course of a season a strike out vs. a ball put in play makes no real difference. I would drool over the chance to get Fielder here, although the cost would be way too high.

Roch, Just after you left Hunter and Dempsey at the pregame show before yesterday's game you were kind enough to sign a baseball for me. I appreciate your blog and keep up the good work.
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My pleasure. Was nice meeting you. - Roch

I think that Mora ranks #2T alongside DeCinces behind Brooks. Mora has one fantastic season (2004), a couple of good ones (2003, 05, 08), and several average or worse seasons (2001, 02, 06, 07, and 09). DeCinces seems to get better the longer he's been gone. People forget that until he went to California and had his monster year, he was a low average hitter with decent power and good defense.

I think that since there is nothing, nada, zip, zilch on the 3B FA market that is attractive (just say NO to Beltre), they should give the job to Wigginton until Bell is ready, even if that is for the entire season. If they aren't going to give up the farm to get a 1B, then they should give Aubrey first crack at it. I agree that he's a Mattingly/Grace type, and his projections look very similar to Markakis. I'll take another .300-17-90 hitter in the lineup, especially if we can add a Jermaine Dye-type as a DH to bat 4th.

I'd be very happy next season with this lineup:

2B Roberts
RF Markakis
CF Jones
DH Dye
C Wieters
LF Reimold
1B Aubrey
3B Wigginton
SS Izturis

And since we're on the topic of rosters and such, I hope beyond hope that Turner makes the team as the utility IF so I don't ever have to see Andino again. He's easily one of the worst 5 hitters in baseball (was 5th in MLB in lowest OPS among players with 200+ PA), and I was disgusted that DT let him hit in both the 7th and the 9th innings yesterday, even if he did get a hit in the 9th.

Brooks is #1 with Mora faintly visible in the distance after DeCines.

Schoolman,
Do you recall the most intriguing and short-lived tryout at third base -- Eddie Murray?

Earl Weaver thought he had discovered the Holy Grail of inspired position changes when he played Eddie at third for only three games before calling off the experiment and moving Eddie to first.

For the first three games of the 1978 season, Earl used the following in the 2-5 spots in the lineup:
R Dauer DH
E Murray 3B
L May 1B
D DeCinces 2B

When the dust had cleared after we were rudely and decisively swept by the host Brewers (outscored 40-11 in three games), Earl changed the defensive alignment by moving Murray to first, Dauer to second, DeCinces to third, and May to DH.

In researching Eddie at 3B, I was reminded that, in 1978, the Orioles finished in fourth place in the ALED with a record of 90-71. 1978 was the year the Yankees and the Red Sox were deadlocked with records of 99-63 after New York had erased a 14-game Boston lead.

The tie was broken in a one-game playoff in which Bucky Dent forever endeared himself to Boston fans by hitting a three-run homer, only his fifth of the year. In the bottom of the ninth, with the tie run on third, Gossage got Yaz to pop up to end the game.

In a best of seven series, the Yankees beat the Royals 3-1 to win the AL Pennant and went on to beat the Dodgers in six games.

Students, that’s your history lesson for today.
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I do remember Murray at third and May at first, but forgot about DeCinces at second. Dauer the DH? Man, that makes no sense. - Roch

Glad to see that, upon sober reflection, most fans here are giving Mora his due as an outstanding Orioles 3b. Boy it bothered me to see all the haters come out after his admittedly unfortunate brush with Trembley. For me, watching the O's over this otherwise disgraceful decade, Melvin was one of the few bright spots. And for those that actually remember his '04 season, it will be hard to ever forget what an outstanding player he was when he was at the top of his game. He always seemed to be an energetic perosna in the dugout too. I'll miss seeing the guy at the hot corner for us. He was, and will always be, a great Oriole.

Hi Roch! I have been a little quiet because I've been working on the TWA Grand Plan. Listen AM I've worked hard on this and all it takes is money and willpower.... HERE IT IS

starting line-up everyday Bench- Pie, Moeller, Andino, Wig/Aubrey

1. Figgins 3B
2. Roberts 2B
3. Jones CF
4. Holliday LF
5. Markakis RF
6. Wieters C
7. Aubrey/Wigginton 1B (Aubrey against RH, Wigg agaianst LH check stats)
8. Riemold DH
9. Izturis SS

THIS LINE-UP IS AWESOME !!

Starting Rotation Bullpen - Johnson, Bergen, Castillo, Baez
Uehara, Sarfate, Ray, Hendersen
1. Lackey
2. Bergesen
3. Tillman
4. Matusz
5. Guthrie

So we need to get Lackey, Figgins, Holliday, and Baez. Spend some cash and get immediately competetive. I actually have to pare off one player - but this is a nice group, isn't it?
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Holliday, Figgins and Lackey? That's some serious spending there. - Roch

Hey Roch!
What do you do in the off season to keep yourself busy? I know you will be busy during the Winter Meetings but that is a long ways off yet. I sure do appreciate all your hard work and your dedication to us fans.

Andrew,
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Thanks Andrew. I'll still be monitoring whatever the Orioles are doing, and commenting on some other stuff that's going on. Hopefully, the Hot Stove Show will return on MASN. I'm still waiting for confirmation. The time goes by quickly. And my daughter keeps me hoppin'. - Roch

hey Roch, could you speculate on what the orioles plans are for the off season, what are their needs? i was also looking at free agents after this season and next. not a lot of interesting names available this winter, but albert pujols, joe mauer, jose reyes, josh beckett, and roy halladay are all available after next season, just a thought
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We can kick that around again, see if anything has changed. I'll file that one away for a future entry. - Roch

With all respect to Mora he was not a special player in really any way. He had a few good years during the "steroid era" and was pretty awful after testing became extensive.

*** TWA SAID ***

So we need to get Lackey, Figgins, Holliday, and Baez. Spend some cash and get immediately competetive. I actually have to pare off one player - but this is a nice group, isn't it?
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Holliday, Figgins and Lackey? That's some serious spending there. - Roch

TWA - I couldnt agree with you more!
Roch, what do you mean that is some serious spending. What about all the savings with the dozen or so contracts which have come off the books. People need to realize, Ole Pete and Andrew need to prove to the fans they are serious about building a contender. Right about now, Ole pete is sitting at Phillips eating filet and laughing at how the P/L statement looks so beautiful and how they DUPED the fans who did show up this year.

The PRESS and fans need to be all over Andrew & Ole Pete if only second tier or wanna be players are brought in to fill the gaps. Yes that means the PRESS! So Ole Hunter and Ole Jimbo Johnson needs to be critical......NEVER WILL HAPPEN

Mora? No idea where he ranks. He was pretty much the O's 3B of this decade. And he had 3 really good seasons. I don't know enough history to give an answer.

Why are the O's considering Bell the 3B of 2011? Is he a can't miss guy or something? Because usually I thought players had to earn themselves a starting spot. Like Roberts, Markakis, Reimold and the like.

I think Beltre would be a smart investment for 1 or 2 yrs. He hit 103 HRs for Seattle his 5 years there. Thats over 20 HRs a season in a pitchers park. He also was pretty close to 400 RBIs in that span too.

His career average over 162 games 24 HR 87 RBI. Which is not too bad for a guy that played his home games in pitchers parks. Sadly not much of an OB threat though at .325.

He is still in the prime of his baseball life. And looks to be the best young option. But if they want a little older coming off injury I guess Glaus would be solid too. But not as good with the glove.

Glaus seasonal average (162 games) is 35 HR 101 RBI with a solid .359 OB%.

Brummie said:
“I figured I would receive a chilly if not all out hostile reception and that for the good of everyone's post-game celebrations, perhaps I should keep my identity to myself.”

Blogman said:
“That's funny, because when I was mentioning Brummie, I thought to myself, "What if this guy is him?" No hostility at all. Wish you had told me. I was asking different people if they knew who you were. Was hoping you'd see me and introduce yourself. Well, it was sort of nice meeting you. Hope you made it home safely.” – Roch

jdb says:
I am very displeased with both of you!

Brummie – What the devil! You sound like a 15-year-old high schooler too nervous to talk to a girl; I’ve been that boy (and man); I know how hard it is to speak up and try to convince someone that you are not a waste of time.

IRONY ALERT: Brummie, you were concerned that you would ruin post-game celebrations by revealing yourself, but for the entire, agonizing season, you had no qualms, whatsoever, detracting from the pleasure of participating on the School of Roch blog. So very thoughtful of you!

This was Roch, and you couldn’t pull the trigger because you were concerned about a hostile reception? Wariness or hostility is exactly what you should have expected; but, for heavens’ sake, this was your opportunity to convince the Headman that you do have a soul and are capable of carrying on an engaging conversation during which you didn’t act like someone afflicted with Tourette’s Syndrome, which compels you, against your will, to spout antagonistic comments about Andy and P.A.

Schoolman – You were hoping to meet Brummie, you shook hands with him, but your evilometer needed calibrating and you missed him! Not very keen instincts for a reporter.

Did anyone else at Sliders take Brummie’s pulse? I really want to know what makes this fractured brain tick.

Jack said:

"I know you dont like post which critique fellow journalist so I will keep it mild.
I have to comment on Spencer Fordin. This guy is so bias it is not even enjoyable to read his articles."

Hey pot, this is kettle, you're black.

How are the comp. sci. people doing on that ignore function?

Hi Roch, I have read your blog since the Sun days, but I have never wanted to comment until now. I am a 58 yr old Baltimore native, been to probably 300-400 O's games in my lifetime, and had quite an experience on Sunday at the game. A few rows in front of me, there was a guy who had sarcastic comments about everything all through the game, and seemed to get a kick out of putting down Jeff (screech). The whole game, giving outspoken opinions about what he would do if he was GM, putting down the team, management etc. The guy was a real weasel, couldn't fight his way out of a wet paperbag, but just knew it all. Then, he said the magic words, I'm over here from an assignment from England, and yada yada, and then said that after the game, he was going to have a few beers with his "friend" Roch from MASN. It turns out he does some "work" with Roch. The whole thing was hilarious....I FOUND BRUMMIE!! Anyways, for all you posters, some of which I lie to read your insights...."He is who we think he is!!", to paraphrase Dennis Green. In closing, I would like to say, he lives in his own fantasy world...and I was laughing so hard that I cried! Great work Roch, I love the column!

Hey Roch, when is the Rochhead get together? I would love to meet some of the misfits here...

The Hot Stove show better be back! Why not anyway? There are only so many O's archived games & minor college BBall games to air.
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Don't think we have a get-together planned at the moment. Was hard enough making it happen at the ballpark. I'm pretty sure we'll have the Hot Stove Show again. I wish we could take it on location and have a live crowd (as opposed to the dead ones). Would make for a nice atmosphere. - Roch

Roch what about trying for Michael Young of Texas ?The Rangers are hurting
financially & might settle for a package of prospects. The Rope
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Where would you play him? Just asking because Bell is projected to be ready perhaps later in the 2010 season. And would Texas make the trade without asking for the young pitching prospects that MacPhail won't part with? - Roch

Nate - if we're going to look ahead to the 2010 offseason and speculate, here's my predictions on the guys you mentioned: Pujols stays with the Cards, Mauer and Halladay sign with the Yankees, Beckett stays with the BoSox, and Reyes doesn't fully recover from his injury. It's pointless to think about the Orioles signing top free agent talent until they are already winning. That's the problem with all the scenarios that get posted showing how if they sign three top free agents this offseason they can compete in 2010.

Me, I'd like to see them do something impactful this offseason but I'll be surprised to see it happen. Unlike some others, I will continue to be a supportive fan, offering specific criticisms where I think it warranted rather than a blanket condemnation of any person. I just think that unless MacPhail has a different meaning of "key pieces" that he doesn't intend to trade than we have speculated, we are not likely to get a really big bat for the lineup. My other thought is that maybe he was just bluffing and not tipping his hand, but will instead be looking rather creatively, including at the high priced options, whether free agent or trade.

Roch -
Getting the three biggies will cost a baby fortune - but not as much as you think. (Salaries gone Mora, Huff, Sherrill,Zahn, and no 160 million to Mark T.) The bringing in of 3 majors would immediately boost credability to the organization and the excitement would be monstrous. We've been saying for years when it came time to spend we'd be there. Three players (plus Baez). Do you not agree if we got those players we would be competative everyday and borderline competatvie in September? What weakness do you see in my dream team?
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They'd be competitive, for sure, but how much would you have to pay to convince Holliday to come here? And Lackey? Plus, Figgins isn't the power hitter that Trembley wants at third. - Roch

1. Brooks
2. Melvin
3. Cal (as 3B)
4. Decinces
5. Glenn Gulliver or Fritz Connolly (your choice!)

Just kidding about # 5!

Anyone else frustrated that they won their last 4 games instead of securing the #2 pick? If Harper falls to #2, it could be another Teixeira instance.

Hi Roch, I started reading your blog this year and wanted to give you a big 'Thank you' for doing a great job. I also enjoy your insights when you're on masn tv.

Do you and Steve synch up prior on the blogs you write?

Great job!
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Thanks Adrian. Steve and I occassionally check on each other to make sure there's not much duplication, usually at the ballpark. For example, we made sure that Steve passed along MacPhail's quotes about Trembley's option being picked up, and I quoted Trembley. - Roch

Mora sucked. He contributed to the culture of losing, he had no range, he was not at all clutch, he was a Double Play Machine (and not the good kind) and he had a bad attitude. His place in O's history is good riddance to bad rubbish. I can't wait until he hits the FA market and no one wants him. Then he can go sulk in a corner somewhere b/c no one respects him, boo, hoo, hoo...

Mora is #2 behind the greatest ever. Not a bad place to be.

Mora had shoulder surgery in the off season I wonder if that had anything to do with his drop in production.

1. Brooks
2. Mora
3. Cal
4. Decinces
5. Surhoff
6. Gomez (Chris)
7. Ray Knight
8. Craig Worthington
9. Ty Wigginton
10. The fact that I put Ty Wigginton on this list means no one else after a matters.

Thanks for a fine season, Roch! Missed you before Saturday's game, but you gave me a nod in the 8th...Of course, now the fun begins...please, dear man, get some sleep and commence checking your girl's homework more than ours (she's gotta be easier to edit, anyway...)

mstrchef13 (as usual) is right on with looking at Jermaine Dye and skipping the entire FA market on (power) corner IFs. They are all awful (or no better than Scott/Wiggy, who we already have), though if we don't waste $8-10 million on [Blalock, or some other NOT the answer available], that will only prove that the FO is cheap...

(mstrchef's)
2B Roberts S
RF Markakis L
CF Jones R
DH Dye R
C Wieters S
LF Reimold R
1B Aubrey L
3B Wigginton R
SS Izturis S...let's just make that R

(my addition)
UT Turner (can he play an adequate SS?) R
1B/DH/LF Scott L
OF Pie/Fiorentino L
C Moeller R

That gives us Turner to back up Wiggy until Bell arrives (and a cherry 8-hole in which Bell can get comfortable), and Wiggy's versatility only helps plugging in Scott (perhaps over Aubrey, or NL trade -- Giants?) at 1B, allowing us to work through slumps and platoon against tough splits. Short contract for Dye means that if a really strong 2B prospect comes along in a couple years (or Turner looks awesome), BRob continues with us as a Paul Molitor clone (top of the order DH/2B/1B). Versatility in the IF also allows us to keep Pie for Jones/Reimold's off/DH days, although he's also a potentially nice trade chip as Fiorentino's performance suggests he can be a "4th OF" (really defense/speed/backup CF, as we have Dye giving the Stick a break in RF here and there). I'd look for some platoon lineups, defensive replacements, and pinch-hits/running from a squad like that. Good performances from platooners may net them a chance at a title run elsewhere and generate some prospects for us to replace them. And I'd switch the 21 and the 10, but yadda yadda...

Does anyone know about Dye as a clubhouse presence? I'm just wanting to hear him say, over and over, "the young pitching here reminds me of when I came up with the Braves..."

Doug and threedaysrest, especially, thanks for getting the point of allowing Melvin, in an inconsequential finish, the swan song he deserves as the current Dean of the Orioles. We have plenty of time to see Turner, he didn't lose any points by not playing much, and we treat our players the right way, which matters (IMHO) if we're trying to build a dynasty and return to the Oriole Way. That Way does include respect, even if Melvin's use of the word this year was laughable in context.

Somebody mentioned Wayne Gross. I always thought he was one of the most dangerous home run hitters in baseball -- when your team was either ahead by 9 runs or behind by 9 runs and nobody was on base.

The O's need to trade for Brandon Wood. He can play 3B next year and move over to SS when Josh Bell is ready in another year or so. Given a real chance to play every day his minor league stats suggest that Wood will be a very good hitter.

Hey Roch, when is the Rochhead get together? I would love to meet some of the misfits here...

The Hot Stove show better be back! Why not anyway? There are only so many O's archived games & minor college BBall games to air.
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Don't think we have a get-together planned at the moment. Was hard enough making it happen at the ballpark. I'm pretty sure we'll have the Hot Stove Show again. I wish we could take it on location and have a live crowd (as opposed to the dead ones). Would make for a nice atmosphere. - Roch

Hey Roch, you can always do the show at the ESPNZone. They seem to like having local sports shows broadcast live there.

Great stuff this season, Roch, you chronicled and commented with humor, diligence, and dedication. It is much appreciated!

Oriole Jim: Great account of your sizing up Brummie. He amounts to about as much as I thought he would in person. So he questions Roch's journalistic methods online and claims to be his friend and even colleage in the stands? No wonder he flounders when he has an opportunity to introduce himself -- that would take even more gall!

Regarding Mora's legacy at 3rd: I could not have argued any better than Mark C. Well reasoned and I can't help but agree.

Regarding Mora's replacement: Out of FAs, Glaus would be my first choice, should he prove himself truly healthy and again capable during the post-season with the Cards. He hits lefties well and has career OPS+ of 121; though we know how going after this type of player can often result in frustration, being that the best years may very well be behind him. Beltre would be my second choice. No to Blalock or Banyan; both are awful against lefties, and not much better than Wiggy against righties. Unfortunately, I have a sinking suspicion the FO will give Blalock a very close look. Hopefully more attractive candidates are found via trade or unexpected non-tender. Would Mark Reynolds be available through trade? It would probably take a lot, and he would block Bell, though blocking someone currently in AA may not always the best calculus for making a move.

How can we forget Jeff Manto?

I hope that we can get what Trembley wants at third base. He is right. It is my opinion that if we had a legitimate power hitting third baseman and one more solid starting pitcher that we could be very competitive. The future can be now. The lineup could look like this:

1. Roberts 2B
2. Jones CF
3. Markakis RF
4. Power Hitter 3B
5. Reimold LF/DH
6. Wieters C
7. Montanez DH/LF
8. Aubrey 1B
9. Izturis SS

Bench: four players

Starters:
1.Free Agent or trade
2.Matusz
3.Bergesen
4.Guthrie
5.Tillman

Bullpen:
Hernandez or Berken
Hendrickson(Hopefully we sign him. We need two or more LHP in the bullpen)
Meredith
Castillo
Johnson
Uehara (Closer?)
One other from minors or get a closer in free agency or a trade.

Roch, Adam Jones the answer at SS? Pie in CF?
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I don't think there's a question at SS. They love Izturis. And Jones won't be playing SS ever again. Nobody wants that, especially him. - Roch

Actually, I really like Andy's idea to get Brandon Wood. That kid can flat-out RAKE in the minors, and the Angels seem determined not to give him a shot to do it in the bigs. It probably wouldn't take a king's ransom to get him. Maybe the Angels will take Rich Hill...

Re: Mora: he's #2 behind Brooks. Cal will be remembered as a SS, and since he moved to 3B toward the end of his career, his most productive days were already behind him. But I have to wonder... where's the love for Rick Schu? ;) (And yeah, I just went there. Rick Schu. That's right.)

Roch -- as for ideas/suggestions, why not do a question of the day? It'll get the readers talking, should expose us to a bunch of opinions on various topics, and means you don't have to do a lot of research and prep work. Everybody wins! :) They could even be general MLB questions, not O's specific, as the playoffs happen. An example question: If you were Jim Leyland, would you have started Justin Verlander Sunday, or would you have saved him so that he could pitch twice in the Yankees series?
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That's a good idea. I sort of did that today with Melvin. BTW, for the record, I wouldn't save Verlander. You have to make the playoffs before you can worry about the Yankees. - Roch

Hey Roch.....I can only assume from the comments from every reporter except Miss Theoharis, that her "journalism" is a little skewed, Connelly, Jeff Z, and others said that they have had players grumble about some managerial moves during the year...but not players that have said a change should have been made. She's a pretty face....but thats is it!

So let me make sure I have this straight:

Dumba$$_Oriole was too chicken sh!% to introduce herself to Roch because she was afraid that she'd ruin the post-game celebration, but ruining other people's enjoyment doesn't stop her from posting her bile/drivel on this blog?

This is absolutely laughable!

She was afraid that an introduction would have been met with hostility (i.e.: afraid that she would have had her a$$ handed to her)?

She is, indeed, a coward.

Thanks for all the hard work this year. I know I don't post much, but I read the blog daily and always appreciate your work. If I come up next year I'll be sure to say hello.

Oops.
Thanks for another season Roch. One good thing about a last place team...the off season can be more compelling than the main event.

Look forward to your updates.

Brothaaa....Heard this weekend that the O's may be wiling to give JJ a chance at starting....seems Alan Dunn thinks he can be a starter....whatcha hear? Also...I think Bell and Steve Johnson are gonna be the real deal...when will the O's decide where they will start 2010?
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I wrote about JJ yesterday. That exact same thing. Probably won't know where players are assigned in the minors until spring training. - Roch

Brandon Woods would be fine for 3rd, and eventually SS, if they can get him. Very good #s in the minors and figures to hit but he is not the PROVEN bat that the O's are looking for.

The person to get, who is available and can play 3rd, is Dan Uggla. He fits AM's description of a big righty bat and could move to 1st or DH when Bell is ready. Also, a short, managable contract.

Dan Uggla 2009 STATS
BA HR RBI OBP SLG
.243 31 90 .354 .459

I have articles naming the O's as poss. suitors along with about 6 or so other teams but that means little given the rumor mongering that goes on.

Roch, have the O's ever hinted "off the record" at trying to get him?
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I haven't heard his name, and anyone linking him to the Orioles is doing so only because the club has a need at third base and they're speculating that he could play that position in the majors, since he's done it in the minors. - Roch

Roch,

I agree with most that it was Brooks, Cal, DD and then Mora.

As far as the bat goes I also like Micheal Young. Granted you don't want to block Bell but Izturis only has a contract through next year and you could move Young back to SS at that point. Snyder and Wigginton could share 1b and float at DH. Another person i like in a 80-100 game rotation at DH would be Jason Giambi. The guy takes alot of pitches, has played for alot of winners and i have not heard too many bad things about him in the clubhouse.

There are few in the clubhouse remaining that could be the go-to guys, to keep the kids in their place. I think Giambi could be that guy, even with all his power, I do not think Fielder is one of those leaders.

The O's are still in the developement stage and I believe you have to be careful who you put in the mix. I think the next step to learning how to win is how to be accountable. It seems every winner has that one guy who will tug on your collar when you get out of line. I do not know if Roberts is that guy. Frank Robinson was the best I believe.

The following quote from Adrian Beltre indicates a tough sell for the Birds:
" ... Last year, it was a tough free agency for some players because of the economic climate. I don't know what to expect, but for me, it's not about the money anymore. I have already made a lot of money in the sport. I would like to play in the World Series and win one."

Oriole Jim said:
“… A few rows in front of me, there was a guy who had sarcastic comments about everything all through the game, and seemed to get a kick out of putting down Jeff (Screech). The whole game, giving outspoken opinions about what he would do if he was GM, putting down the team, management etc. The guy was a real weasel, couldn't fight his way out of a wet paperbag, but just knew it all. Then, he said the magic words, I'm over here from an assignment from England, and yada yada, and then said that after the game, he was going to have a few beers with his "friend" Roch from MASN. It turns out he does some "work" with Roch. The whole thing was hilarious....I FOUND BRUMMIE!! Anyways, for all you posters, some of which I like to read your insights...."He is who we think he is!!", to paraphrase Dennis Green. In closing, I would like to say, he lives in his own fantasy world...and I was laughing so hard that I cried! Great work Roch, I love the column!”

Oriole Jim,
Bless you and your choice of seats. Our first meaningful sighting of Brummie the Impaler, scourge of nineteen-year-old rookie pitchers.
If you concentrate, maybe a little deep breathing, can you remember additional details? For instance, did you notice if he had yellow eyes or a forked tongue?

Jack said:
Why did Trembley have to explain Mora's exit LOL
Another example of why DT should not be in the managerial seat. The cart is pulling the horse in this clubhouse!
How would I explained it.....by playing some of the young talent which was called up for the purose of evaluating them.

Jack,
It’s hard enough to withstand your incessant dead-horse-beatings; but we also are forced to translate some of your comments from Jackspeak into English.

What the deuce was a cart, let alone a horse, doing in the clubhouse? How would you “explained” it?

...just above Chris Sabo.

Roch - If you get Holliday ( a monster RH power hitter, the best on the market) the third base slugger becomes unnecessary! Please keep in mind in the TWA Plan we give up NO talent. Lots of cash, but we've been promised when the time comes...

Roch,

We spoke about this a little bit on Friday at the MASN Party, but here is the lineup that I envision/would like to see next year. I don't think that they will be able to get all 3 top free agents, but I also think that there are some parts that can be moved to provide more productive outcomes.

Figgins 3b
Roberts 2b
Jones Cf
Markakis Rf
Weiters C
Reimold Lf
Scott Dh
Aubrey/Wig 1b
Itsuris SS

Bench:
Wigginton
Pie
Andino
Moeller

Starting Pitching:
Bergenson
Bedard
Matusz
Tillman
Hernandez/Bergen (other in BP)

Bullpen:
Uehara (closer)
Johnson
Hendrickson
Berken
Ray
Meredith
Baez (or Mickolio/Sarfate)

Trembley said they want someone with the ability to drive in 90+ runs, which we have in Markakis, but we have another player in roberts that has the capability to do that too, if people were on base for him. I think the O's would (should) be willing to get the run production from another position other than the corners, IF they can match that production internally. The way that Roberts has been stroking doubles the last few years (not to mention his 15+hr seasons) in a sense, it is wasting his production. If they are able to bring in a premier leadoff hitter like Figgins, then you look to move Roberts to a role where he can drive in those additional runs. In fact, I would be VERY interested to see how many of the doubles/HR he hit were in his first at bat of the game. if it is more than 11 (Roberts drove in 79), it is very safe to say that he could very easily be that 90 RBI guy that Trembley covets.

You said you were concerned about bringing in Figgins because it would block the way for Josh Bell in late 2010-11, but even if they sign Figgins to a long term contract, they could then move him in a trade for a top pitcher down the line. That is, if they bring Bell up at 3rd. Weren't there a lot of questions about his defense at 3rd when we initially traded for him? There is no reason that he couldn't be converted to 1st if Michael Aubrey struggles to match his 09 production in the first half next year. Anyway, I wouldnt be surprised to see some agents advise players to take 1-2 year contracts this offseason, and to become a free agent again after the economy has improved some, so a 2 year deal might not be out of the question.

I don't think they will convince someone like Holliday to come here,in part because I think he is truly a NL player. If I were to predict it, I think he re-signs in St Louis. I also think Jason Bay will Re-Sign in Boston. Delgado could be a 1-2 year option, but he is oft injured and would be nothing more than a stop-gap. Not really the profile of player McPhail is looking for.

I know Baez is a free agent, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him re-signed at a GREATLY reduced amount. He had some stretches of solid pitching and really, are there that many players that are available that would be a significant upgrade over him.

I think the Orioles will try for Lackey, but I think they have a much better chance of signing Bedard because he has a familiarity with the organization, and has had some success in Camden Yards. I also think that he may think of it as unfinished business/something to prove since they traded him for so many parts of what is now shaping up to be our future club.

Anyway, the 2009 season is thankfully over, but now comes the drama of the offseason!

I just realized I left Guthrie off of the SP list- I would put him at #3 after Bergenson and Bedard and drop Berken and Hendrickson to the bullpen shuffle... OOPS!

The Ghost of Chris Sabo is haunting me today. Make it stop. Make it go away.
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Do I know the Chris Sabo story? It sounds familiar, but I've killed a lot of brain cells through the years. Please refresh my memory. - Roch

CBS jack,

Im just saying that there are bigger fish in the sea next year, and there is a possibility that next year the o's have a winning record. also i wouldn't wan the orioles to sign a mediocre 1B or 3B when there are better options next year

After Brooks and Cal, I was a Mike Pagliarulo fan even though he only played 3B for 28 games. I was hoping he would have been back in 1994.

I'd like to congratulate you on such an open ended topic as to keep us all busy commenting for the day and I'm guessing were able to accomplish three things with your single post day.

1. Keep the streak alive.
2. Recover from above mentioned hangover.
3. Work on other things or rest.

Well played. Busy work for the class.

I never saw Brooks play, but the way I hear it, Mora ranks way behind. Ripken spent most of his playing time at SS. Mora is a great man, husband, and father, but is not one of the best players the O's have had. We've had many crappy 3rd basemen over the years, which is why Mora looks good to us.
I'd have to list him third all-time.

Now on to his replacement. There is no reason to sign a 3B for a one year deal. I'd rather have Wiggy play 3B for one year. Signing a FA will not block anyone because that player can be traded or released when Bell is ready. No big deal.

George Kell was pretty hot stuff -- pretty much the gold standard at third, before Brooks upped the ante. He led the league in hitting one year, won a ton of gold gloves, made a bunch of All-star teams, and was elected to the Hall of Fame by the veterans committee. You could look it up, as the saying goes. But his best years were over before he came to Baltimore. He played here a couple of seasons, then turned the job over to Brooks -- and the rest, you know.

My offseason adds would be Matsui and Garret Atkins. My lineup:

2B Roberts
CF Jones
RF Markakis
DH Matsui
3B Atkins
LF Reimold
C Weiters
1B Aubrey
SS Izturis

Bench: Pie, Wiggington or Scott, Andondino, Moeller

I hate to keep repeating myself, but if we are going to sign someone to just DH, it should be Bobby Abreu. Unless they can convince Jason Bay to DH, but I doubt that's going to happen.

P.S. Albert Pujols isn't going anywhere!

Andy's secret weapon. Get another Cubbie!

3b - Aramis Ramirez. He is absolutely the real deal - and fairly young. What would we have to give up to get him?

Roch,

Thank you SO much for coming onto the show. We appreciated it very much.

It was only our fifth show, but how did you think we did? Did we ask questions to you in a logical order? Did we skip all over the place with our questions? Did you think that your appearance flowed well?

Thanks again.

Luke
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My pleasure. I thought you guys did a great job. You were prepared, you made it a relaxing interview and you definitely know your baseball (and not just the Orioles). Nicely done. - Roch

Oriole Jim: Sorry mate, that was not me. You lie. I spent the game debating with my buddy whether Beltre would be a good signing ( my take: He is mediocre and his contract would be bad for the (Profit/Loss statement.)

But it's nice to know there are other people in the anti-ANDREW army, even if they are too afraid to come out of the closet.

JackDUnn: Perhaps I should have told Roch I was Brummie. But he was having a good time. I thought it might be best to leave him alone. I have to be in his top three for least favourite posters.

In addition, I like to remain anonymous. A good reporter never reveals himself unless he has too. You will never know when the Brummie walks among you.

LOL

I'd be happy to meet up with anyone on here for beers and offseason discussions

Where can I find Ole Dave Johnson's mention of Jack and me? I want to hear what the newest Mr. YES MAN had to say.

Funny how he has time to complain about our criticisms of ANDREW, but when it comes time for him to man up and admit that 98 losses is unacceptable and that the team is not making progress, he is nowhere to be found. Maybe if Ole Dave stopped boasting about his son or telling long winded stories that go absolutely nowhere and make me think he is already going senile, he could find some time to address the REAL issues facing this team.
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I was in the Bud Lite warehouse when Tom Davis mentioned that I was meeting up with some of my readers, and Dave just said, "Are Jack and Brummie here?" Also, Dave is probably the most critical broadcaster. The last thing he's accused of is being a "yes man." I'm just saying... - Roch

I'm sorry, but I just don't like Ty Wigginton. There, I've said it. It won't make me popular here but it's how I feel.

For large swaths of this season, he was "swing at first pitch and pop out" in clutch situations. He had a few good games among many, many mediocre ones, and he is "passable" at best defensively. Every time I see him I have flashbacks to Tony Bautista. I checked the stats and he is marginally better than Bautista, but that's my reaction when I see him play.

Any future at third base really shouldn't involve him. At all. He's a bench player at best.

And I'll miss Melvin. It's time to part ways, but he is an emotional player and a star here for those of us who have memories longer than 1 year. I never saw Decinces(sp?), but I would imagine Mora is right up there with him. And I'm not just saying that because he replaced Tony B., although that alone would have been enough.

Troy Glaus is on the Cards' playoff roster - if his shoulder is at full strength, he might be a great low risk free agency signing. Even if theoretically he had to move to 1st base (say, because of his shoulder), he would be a heck of a lot better than the other options - and he is a right-handed power hitter...

Apparently the Pirates are shopping Matt Capps (according to mlbtraderumors). Between 2007 and 2008 he was one of the better (and underrated) late-inning relievers in baseball - he didn't record a lot of saves because his team was terrible. Last season his ERA was awful but it looks like he was a bit unlucky. His value is pretty much as low as it'll get, and if we had Capps / Johnson / Uehara as the back of our bullpen - that's not too shabby. Add to that Hendrickson, Berken, Mickolio and Hernandez - that's a heck of a lot better than the options we had at the beginning of last year.

Roch,

As far as 3rd basemen go?

1) Brooksie
2) Cal - His legacy began here
3) Mora
4) DeCinces
5) Worthington/Sugar-bear/Gomez

As for the Hotstove talk:

Without going crazy, and talking about guys that would never come here, I'll give this a shot:

3rd- Joe Crede - RH power bat, 2 year deal, costs no choices

RH DH - Either Magglio Ordonez or Austin Kearns, if teams don't pick up option, or Vlad Guerrero (bit of a stretch)
(A) type, if you are going to try to get one of these

Starters - Tim Hudson, if Braves don't pick up option, Brandon Webb if D-Backs don't pick up option - (B), or Doug Davis (B). Or no compensation, Kelvim Escobar.

Closer - Fernando Rodney (B) type free agent

It's a bit of a wish list, but Crede and RH DH and pitching options certainly do-able.

Roch-
Did you catch Dan Connolly's article today? "Whats an Oriole to do?" kinda thing.
It is frustrating, really, that Texiera is who he is, and I wouldn't want him anyway.
But I don't understand what the problem is.
Connolly points out that the O's, now that Gibbons and Hernandez are off the books, that we have LOTS AND LOTS of Cash. Looking back at the 98million dollar payrolls and such, now at just 31 million before bonuses and arbitration bumps.
Anyway, I don't understand what the problem is here.
Sign 2 or 3 of the top bullpen arms on the market. Just like they did 3 seasons ago. This time, get truly good ones though.
2nd, sign the best fit top tier starter on the market.
Whether it is Hudson, Harden, or whoever.
We will have to overpay. That is obvious. Thank God for that extra cash.
Finally, and this might be the most important.
Trade for a franchise 1b in his prime. It is as simple as that.
Otherwise, don't do anything and just wait to see if some of the younger guys grow into All-Stars.
I don't see the latter as an option, simply because we have lost for 92 years it feels like, and the attendance just can't take it another year.
Could you imagine what the attendance would look like if we took the Sox and Yankee fans out of that stat?
Anyway. I hope they do what they need to do. If they don't.... we just can really count out ever winning again because they would have really shown no care for it.

Roch, I'd rate Melvin third behind Brooks and Cal, tied with Doug. Initially, I was going to put Cal down below the other three like some other readers did, but then sanity kicked in and I said to myself, "Whoa! Okay, call played a couple hundred games fewer than Melvin at third, but this is the Iron Man we're talking about here and we all know that if Earl had let him stay there the debate would be over who was the greatest third baseman in Orioles history: Brooks or Cal?" (I'd go with the original B-Rob over Cal by a paper-thin margin, strictly because of the superior defense - 16 consecutive Gold Gloves is nothing to sneeze at.)

Still, Melvin was a very solid performer for the O's for most of this decade, both at the plate and in the field. If they happened to be a losing team over all his years in Baltimore, it was much more in spite of his contributions than because of any deficiencies. His truly great season in 2004 is the best in terms of hitting by any Oriole third sacker in history and by a pretty wide margin.

And his .340 batting average is the highest full season mark by any player in team history. I can't see any current Oriole breaking that mark, except, of course, Matt Wieters.

Thanks for the memories, Melvin. I hope after you retire, you can come back to the Orioles in some capacity.
------------------------------------------
twa, You talk about bringing Holliday to Baltimore and that's a good though, but even better, how about Holliday and Halladay? That's instant respectability, my friend! : )

Brummie,
You are wasting your time trying to explain yourself to a few on here. Just remember, they are the same people who are holding hands and singing nusery rhymes as they skip down Eutaw street after 98 wins. It doesnt take much to impress them if they are happy with a 98 loss season....lol
These are the same people who have string attached to their heads and everytime Andrew announces something or finally makes a decision, he pulls the strings and these people helplessly shake their heads in approval. Puppets...lol

We represent the 30,000 people who no longer flood the gates at OPACY. The 10,000 people who pay and the 4,000 who actually show, just look for the strings, they are easy to find.

Brummie, if you live local or near AA County, I wouldnt mind meeting up with you for a few. I live in AA and I am stationed and cover all of Carroll County.

As with Dave Johnson.....no comment...lol Now with Davey Johnson, a true manager amongst managers! One of the 3 people who have told the cheapskate to stick his job up his butt!

Roch, my one for the week! Just got tired of hearing these puppets bash Brummie.

Mora was a good soldier for most of his stay with the Orioles. You can't blame him for the losing environment during his tenure. Mr. Angelos still has to accept the bulk of the responsibility for that. Is there any doubt that Mora will eventually be inducted into the Orioles Hall of Fame?

Throughout the season, I've read the complaints of the fans about the team and in some cases, they are certainly justified. I tend to be more forgiving and give the benefit of the doubt to the management and even the players. Sometimes I wonder if I'm blinded by my loyalty to the team. After all, how can you pick out the positives in a 64-98 season.

Then I take a look at what is happening to the Tigers and my faith in the Orioles is restored. I can't tell you how upset I'd be if I was a lifelong Detroit fan. They cough up a sizeable lead down the home stretch. In the final week coming down the stretch, they are forced to use starting pitchers such as Alfredo Figaro and Nate Robertson. To me that smacks of being unprepared. Then their marquis player demonstrates his commitment to the franchise by slumping at the plate, getting absolutely plastered after a game, driving home at 5 am and getting into a scrap with his wife. Are you serious?

I can't help but believe the Twins are going to eat them alive today. The Tigers should never have found themselves in this position. It's shameful.

Ken Francis, Jack, et al - thanks for comments on the TWA Plan (see way above)

Ken - The plan calls for no loss of talent --- we can grab Halliday next year when we go for the repeat and have just had 3 million attendence.

Mather -Your plan is near perfect. Go for Lackey yousay --but get him! AddHolliday to the mix and you become a believer in the TWA Plan (see way above)

Jack - You are right to agree we only need to open the wallet wide!

Roch - Would you mind forwarding the plan to AM?

Have a nice day!!

Holliday isn't coming here, and we shouldn't make an effort to get him. His time in Oakland showed that he's more of an NL player -- just look how he did after getting traded to the Cardinals. St. Louis is interested in bringing him back, so let them pony up the cash for a near-Teixiera deal.

I would like to see the O's go after Vlad Guerrero as a primary DH. His legs are bad enough that he shouldn't play the outfield regularly, but he could spell Markakis there occasionally. He's a right-handed hitter with power, and he's played very well since coming off the DL about 8 weeks ago. Also, he comes from a winning team and could potentially be a good influence on our young players, who need to learn from someone who comes from a culture of winning. I'd even be willing to overpay for Vlad to get him. Once you do, then other free agents will see that the Orioles are serious about adding a few winning players to their solid young nucleus, and we shouldn't have to overpay for anyone else.

I'd also be in favor of bringing in Figgins for third base. Let him and his .400 OBP bat leadoff and move Roberts to the second spot. His 50+ doubles would lead to a lot of runs with Figgins on ahead of him. I've been in favor of this move for months.

Dr. Tom (good name)

Holliday went to Colorado shortly after the break. You hear this National League hitter crap...

Oakland until 7/20 12 HR 54 RBI .284 BA
Colorado after 7/20 12 HR 55 RBI .321 BA

Looks good hitting behind Nick!!!!

Hello Roch,
This is one I've thought about a lot. It's not close--Mora is #2 all-time.
Cal is #3 at third, but Melvin matched him in fielding, while doing it longer as an Oriole. More importantly, Mora outhit Ripken by a bunch. To be fair, Cal is the #1 shortstop in O's history, but (except for the six-game Manny Alexander experiment), he started and finished his career at third base--clearly not Cal's most productive years! Mora finished 2009 as the AL leader at 3rd in fielding percentage, and the major league leader in range (chances per nine innings) by quite a bit. If we go with Wigginton as the regular next year at third, the decline in fielding performance will be staggering. Looking at the blogs, Mora is under appreciated.

Brummie - if you had an ounce of credibilty in these blogs you lost it with your calling Dave Johnson a yes-man.

Have you ever listened to his shows?? He's so downright blunt about what is wrong with the Orioles I almost get embarrassed when I hear him sometimes. He is never afraid to say what's on his mind.

And unlike you, he doesn't hide behind a keyboard slinging out repetitive, unsubstantial fecies. Isn't London calling??

TWA SAID:
Mather -Your plan is near perfect. Go for Lackey yousay --but get him! AddHolliday to the mix and you become a believer in the TWA Plan (see way above)

TWA-I would like to see them land a top pitcher, but I think there are many factors, from the losing seasons, to the reputation that Camden Yards has as a hitters park that will stand in the way. I think that there is a better chance of them signing Bedard than Lackey because he has a connection to Baltimore, he has had success here (didn't he start out '07 6-0?!?) and he is known to be a bit stubborn, which leads me to believe he MIGHT see it as a bit of a challenge/proving he was worth all we got in exchange/stick it to Seattle (the fans have come down on him b/c he hasn't been lights out there). Remember, 2 years ago, a lot of people saw him as the best young lefty in the game and while he isn't a true #1, he would be a great #2 in this rotation and could potentially be a bit of a veteran presence to the staff.

As I said, I don't think we will get Holliday, and frankly I believe he belongs in the NL. In fact, if StL is smart, they should lock him up as Pujols protection for the next 5 years.

I read that there is $$$ that is going to be freed up from other contracts, and frankly I think that you overpay for Figgins, and use your connections/advantage to go after Bedard, shuffle the lineup, and see where you are through June. If it looks like you are in contention at that point, start putting together some options to bring in a 1B via trade before the deadline- possibly Reimold/Hernandez for Adran Gonzolaz, or maybe Adam Dunn (with slightly less packaged). Yes, I know that will bring a reaction to this crowd, but the franchise is in a position where you have to give to get, and paying for a potential playoff run would be worth it to bring the fans back (and make September interesting!)

Mather - Okay, I'll go for Bedard. Figgins we agree on. I can't get away from Holliday - no matter the cost - because he's the perfect fit. But we're close to a merge!!!