In decline
Good morning to all.
Teams throughout baseball were busy this week declining options on their players, turning them loose on the free agent market. Three of them intrigue me at the moment.
Could Jermaine Dye, at the right cost, provide that right-handed power bat for the middle of the order that manager Dave Trembley places high on his wish list?
Dye has averaged 33 home runs over the past five seasons, though he's batted .254 and .250 in two of the last three. He could serve as the designated hitter, though he might prefer to play right field (and for a contender, of course).
Reliever J.J. Putz is coming off elbow surgery and also experienced forearm problems this season. He was limited to 29 games with the Mets, going on the disabled list for good in early June. He posted a 5.22 ERA, walked 19 and struck out 19 in 29 1/3 innings.
I don't think he'll be asking for the moon.
You wouldn't invest a large chunk of payroll in this guy, but if he's back to full health, he gives you another closer option or could assist in a set-up role.
Brett Myers made three Opening Day starts for the Phillies and also has closed. Sounds like a handy guy to have in camp. On the downside, he underwent hip surgery this season (though he returned from it), and was charged with assaulting his wife in June 2006 (the charges were dropped, but it was an ugly incident).
Myers told the Inquirer's Jim Salisbury: "I'll just go out there on the market and see what happens, dude."
You always need at least one guy on the roster who drops the word "dude" on you.
Dye and Myers also own World Series rings. It's nice to have that kind of bling in the clubhouse.
I remember how Jeff Conine's ring from the Marlins, which weighed more than the player, drew a big crowd at Fort Lauderdale Stadium after he re-signed with the Orioles in 2006.
I'll toss out one more name: Hank Blalock, who can play first and third base and also DH.
Blalock had health issues in 2007 and 2008, and he batted only .234 with a .277 on-base percentage this season. But he also hit 25 home runs and could be a temporary solution in a winter where the market isn't overflowing with top corner infield talent.
Scott Boras began representing Blalock this year, so the Orioles would have to wait until he's done comparing his client to Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez. I'm sure he has some charts and graphs to back it up.
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Categories (click for archive)Roch Kubatko | Roch Kubatko Orioles |
I like all THREE of those options.
Unfortunately I have a feeling Dye and Myers might want to play for a contender.
Given the fact that JJ has never played for a contender and is coming off surgery, he might just take the best deal out there. Risk it, I think going after JJ would be the smarter bet as opposed to a Chapman/Lackey.
Roch,
After looking at Brett Myers stats you could say that he would be a decent starter to go get. When healthy he eats innings and has won more games than lost over his career. Also I think he would come cheaper than John Lackey, if you ask me you try to get him cheap and take a flyer on him. Now the only question would be, has he put his personal issues behind and would he be a good person for this clubhouse? In my opinion you try to get him for a year plus an option year and see what happens.
Changed my e-mail, sup guys rumor Larry here!
No rumors yet, but I would love Jermaine Dye to play for us
throw him a 1 year deal for 15 Million
Now that you put all this in perspective Roch, I can see the Orioles going for guys like Dye and Myers. They will come cheap!
I would support the signing of Dye. He could have a career revival at the Yard.
But Myers? Please. We've already signed one over the hill pitcher from the Phillies this decade.
Putz Dye and Myers absolutely.
No to all except Blalock..if he comes around, great, if not, he's keeping the spot warm for Bell....and, he can back up at 1B also.
Interesting names, but Im not all that excited about either.
Dye is on his last legs, I dont think we can gamble on his ancient legs.
Myers is a mediocre pitcher but I guess thats what we are striving for to help bridge the gap to the future. Did he even pitch an inning in the playoffs or WS? The injury & character issues are scaring me off a bit. Can he even give us solid innings at this point? It will come down to his price.
Blalock is really not that good besides having some power. What else does he give you? He DH's most of the time b/c he cannot field. Plus w/ Boras they will command the moon. He will buy into the hype Boras spins this year? Hopefully not us.
Yes, because Millar's bling certainly helped.
Blalock is a disaster -- he's put up those awful numbers in the best offensive park in the AL other than NY. We need more OBP, not less. I would rather have Mora in all honesty.
Dye, Putz, and Myers are all much better ideas -- I'd take any of them for the right deal. I suspect Dye will likely sign elsewhere, but the others could be had.
I like your post, they intrigue me also, Holliday my first choice no doubt is probably out of the question, but Beltre,LaRoche, DeRosa, and Sheets are on my wish list too.
not huge on Dye, I think he's the wrong direction for the Orioles, and frankly he'll probably get better offers elsewhere, for contenders.
Putz could be interesting if he can get back to pitching like he did for the mariners. We need a closer and 2 years ago he was one of the best, depends on how he comes back from the injury.
Myers intrigued me when I saw his option was declined, he's got talent, and the orioles could use him. He can sit at the top of rotation, remove some pressure from Guthrie, and help along some of the younger guys by getting them time in the pen and/or in AAA.
I'd also be ok with them going after Bedard, wouldn't that just sting the mariners, we get Tillman, Jones, Mickolio and sherrill, they get 2 bad years of bedard and after it all we end up with him too.
Didn't Dye use the O's like Vlad did during his last free agency period to get him a higher offer elsewhere?
I might sound like a broken record but I would rather trade the players necessary to get Dan Uggla than Dye or Blalock.
If we can convince Beltre to sign with a team that is looking to give his job to a rookie sometime during the season, we would have solid defenders at 1B (Aubrey) and 3B, and a serious RH bat at DH (Uggla). Considering the REALISTICALLY available talent in this market, I think that those two pick ups are the best we're going to do this winter.
SD might move Gonzales; however, considering what he would cost it's a risky move because there's no guarantee that Weiters, Reimold, and Jones will take the next step this year. If they don't, no big bat will make a difference.
I know Jim Thome is just a regular free agent but, I think he would provide the bat the Orioles need at clean up. He would have such an advantage hitting at Camden Yards, Yankee stadium, and Fenway Park. Do you see the Orioles making a run for him?
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He'd strictly be a left-handed hitting DH, and they already have Luke Scott. Not sure if he'd be a fit. - Roch
I dont like none of em. This isnt the year for free agents lets grow what we gat and see how it goes we know this isnt are year lets hope for 500. And in 2011 we should make a legit run for the playoffs and or alcs. And once we get their it will be all young kids which will be together for a long time coming keep up the good work andy and sit on your hands this winter unless you can get prince for less than a third of our youngings go O's
Hey Roch. Did you ever find out about those multi-million dollar renovations at OPACY by the MD stadium authority? Is it just standard upkeep or new additions?
Thanks.
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No, sorry. I'll try to get some details. I think, from what I've read, that it's mostly renovations/upkeep. - Roch
Roch,
You have to be kidding. Who would want any of these three has-beens or never-beens. As far as the world series bling goes, Jerry Hairston has a world series ring and I wouldn't want his light hitting, swinging for the fence, 250 batting average either. Signing players like these will help to keep us in the cellar of the AL East. Man,have expectations for this franchise fallen off the table or what?
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I didn't say I'm salivating over any of them, but Myers and a healthy Putz (yes, I just typed the words "healthy Putz") could help this club. And as I'm sure you know if you've been paying attention, Fielder and Gonzalez aren't coming here. Don't think you'll see Bay or Holliday, either. They'll need to plug in some short-termers until prospects are ready or perhaps the market improves next winter. - Roch
It is becoming evident that Bell and Snyder are not going to be ready to start the season in the majors.That being said go for short term solutions, my suggestions would be Troy Glaus at third and Blaylock at first.They both have decent power and both could be used as trade bait later in the season,as they will be just stopgaps till Bell and SNYDER ARE ready.Do not trade any young pitching as this is the only way this club digs out of this mess.
Yeah Angelos is real cheap. Spent 110 million locking up 2 cornerstones of the franchise last year. Give me a break. And Andrew is an idiot. Our out field is set for the next 5 years. Oh yeah we have been signing our draft picks also. Wieters Matusz Hobgood Givens. Trades have been at least a B grade at minimum. Go piss and moan somewhere else I watched the purge of 2000 which set us back until ANDREW came in. Is Angelos stubborn? Probably. Does he care about winning ? Probabaly. Maybe everyone would like Irsay to come back and buy the Orioles and have them move also. It's time the fans start taking some responsibility and start packing that place again.
It wouldn't matter to me if we signed any of those guys. Next season is going to be dictated by the improvement of the young guys, so I doubt we sign more than a place-holder. Although, signing Putz would be okay because he name is funny now matter how you pronounce it.
Roch, do you think they're done trimming the 40 man roster or do you think the last few are just harder to decide?
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I think a few more could come off. They have a lot of young guys to protect, plus they'll need room for any additions this winter. - Roch
We already have a Blalock clone in Luke Scott. His numbers are the same or better, esp. OBP. The only thing he doesn't do is play 3rd, which Blalock doesn't do that well anyway. Besides, we need a right handed bat, not another lefty to help vs. the many lefties the O's seem to face. Dye works, as does Glaus, Beltre and Uggla (vis trade). Much better options than Blalock.
Putz and Myers are viable, cheap options for the 'pen, as is Cordero and possibly Wagner. Or you get serious vs. trying to get lucky and go after Soriano or Gonzalez. Assuming they are healthy, any of them figure to be an upgrade to J.J.'s performance in Sept.
here is the full FA list so far, which gets updated daily:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html
I don't remember Dye being mentioned much by the O's at the time. It was five years ago, however, and I could be wrong. He was coming off of three okay seasons in Oakland where he made a ton of money to be a little above average. The O's, if you recall, made their big splash by trading future World Series champion Jerry Hairston Jr to the Cubbies for Sammy Sosa, and weren't really in on Dye.
Vlad, on the other hand, was just about to become an Oriole when Angels owner Arte Moreno personally met with Vlad and sold him on the huge Latino community in Southern California. I don't think that the money he got was significantly better than what the Orioles offered him. Guerrero has been quoted many times that the reason he went with the Angels was because of their Latino owner and the chance to play for and represent the Latino community of Los Angeles/Anaheim. My wife is originally from that area and it is EVERYWHERE.
I've been pushing for the Orioles to persue Dye since August, so of course I'm on board with that idea. Putz is an interesting choice, but his health is a concern. I think Myers is a good fallback option, but again his health is a concern. He also gave up a ton of HRs in Philly, so he'd likely do the same here. If all we are going for is a solid inning eater veteran, I'd take my chances with Jon Garland. At least he's a character guy who called out his teammates in Arizona this year for going through the motions. Except for Lackey, there isn't anyone in the FA class this year who you can count on to be above Guthrie in the pecking order, which is what I think the O's FO has been saying they want to look for. If the Braves are willing to pick up $30MM or so of the $45MM Lowe has left on his deal, I'd be willing to try him out, but again I don't think he'd be what MacPhail is looking for.
Quite frankly, all this talk about acquiring a front line pitcher is like listening to the Ravens fans constantly talk about getting a "true #1 wide receiver". Honestly, there just aren't that many of them out there, and teams who have them don't give them up without getting massive hauls in return.
Seems like some people here are opposed to the three names you threw out. I can't see how.
Dye would obviously be a 1 or 2 year rental, not a long term plan. But he's still a 30 HR guy and that bat would be a huge help to Markakis, Jones, and others in the middle of the lineup.
Myers and Putz are not going to be asking for too much I'm sure. They've proven themselves as very good pitchers in the past, and its not like the Orioles have a wealth of experienced starters or relievers. Low risk, high reward.
JJ Putz is a bad guy and a clubhouse lawyer who has arm trouble . I wouldn't pay a nickle for him. Myers has issues but an outstanding arm and might be worth a make good contract but you can count on him avoiding the AL East. As for Jermaine Dye if he upsets his teammates with his lack of effort during a pennant race why in the world would we expose a rebuilding team to him?
All you're talking about is more scrap from the junk pile. This club has got to get out from under the mind set that they can only get trash. And Roch, that krap about stop gap measures has to be thrown out with the garbage where it belongs. Failure to do so and you and all the other media experts can kiss 2010 good bye right now.
I think Myers is the most intriguing option with his ability to close.
A harder throwing Hendrickson perhaps but if Koji does not pan out ,
at least there's fall back option until Mickolio is ready.
Blalock biggest detriment is his OBP.
Not much of an upgrade compare to Luke Scott.
Relievers are too unreliable.
I would rather go with a Sarfate n Mickolio unless Putz is willing to accept a 1 yr incentives laden offer.
Myers? Please. He may be able to get a few batters out, but I'm sure there must someone else available who hasn't beaten his wife in public (if he's like that in public, just imagine what he's like at home). I know character isn't everything when you're trying to win, but honestly, I could not possibly bring myself to cheer for someone like that. He's complete scum, and not someone we need on the Orioles.
Hey Roch
Just wanted what your thoughts are about troy glaus. I know everyone wants matt holiday or adrian gonzalez as would I but glaus could play 3rd and 1st and could hit cleanup. He is coming off an injury and I assume we would have investigate whether he is 100 percent. But he just turned 33 and might be a good stopgap RH power bat for a couple of years. And at worst when we are ready to contend and sign a legit # 4 hitter he could dh and spell time at first and third.
your thoughts?
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He's definitely not in Fielder's or Gonzalez's neighborhood. You can lump him in with the other one-year types that they might have to settle for while hoping that Snyder and Bell break through soon. Like you said, a stopgap. - Roch
Last year there was talk here about Bobby Abreu and he ended up signing with the Angels for about $6M and then put up 15-103-.293- .390-.435 numbers (with 30 SBs). He got rewarded with 2 yrs $19M and an option yr.
A team like the Angels can sometimes get vets on a lower price contract (1yr $6M) but for a team like the Orioles it is hard to find a veteran willing to take a low contract to play for a losing team unless they have no other options.
Most of the guys out there only look to teams like the Orioles if none of the winning teams are talking to them or if one of the lesser teams offer an overwhelming contract.
It is the price you pay when you lose consistently for a decade.
I'm just a little tired of the players that come here and go through the motions, job to first base on an infield hit or passed ball. I don't remember the player on the Phillies, but he made one of the Yankees hurry a throw to first and got on base because of an error. It might have bee Posada or Arod.
I want a guy that runs like Corey Patterson. I can't see why Corey couldn't catch on with the Nats and Reds though.
Just put Bell and Snyder in and watch them grow.
I agree with ac42. No to Myers.
Dye is worth a look. I would not mind having his bat in the lineup if he is willing to mostly DH.
Putz -- no way. Not only is he a injury risk, his velocity has been down.
Myers...at first I thought he might be an interesting addition, but I think he is an NL pitcher that will get killed in the AL East.
I mentioned Blalock a few times, but if Boras is being his usually self, then probably not...Blalock is not a guy you pay Boras money for. If you can get him on a 2-year deal for 10-12 million (maybe a little more) then yes. If Boras thinks Blalock is worth 10 million a year, then no.
I would love for the O's to sign JJ Putz. Not so much for his pitching abilities. I would just love to read an article in the Sun titled, A Shmuck Interviews A Putz!!!
Roch
Ill add @ name to mix..Randy Wolf...33 and a LHP....he would also be a good innings eater...would like to see derek lowe in the mix as well...bottom line is 2010 FA class is weak...the big names hit the market in 2011...hopefully yankeeintowson will be in detention by than as i am sure he ll be spamming the boards when carl crawford and halladay and beckett and bondermann etc.. are available...lets same our major powder for 2011...i am just hoping 2010 gets us close to 500.
Living in Philly I've gotten to see Myers since he's come up with the Phils. He has more of a closers mentality and has even admitted that he has a hard time settling down in between starts. I think he could be a nice addition in competing for that setup/closers role. I'm not sure how much interest he'll draw from contending teams considering his inconsistent play and injuries as of late. I will say though the one thing that troubles me is the whole hitting his wife in public charges which didn't garner as much attention as I would have guessed considering he was pitching in Philly. The one thing you can't doubt about Myers is his will to compete and contribute as evidenced by his rehabbing from hip surgery to try and help the Phils in their post season run this year.
Jermaine Dye would be a cancer in the club house. He is NOT a leader! When, not if, he becomes unhappy, he will make excuse after excuse and blame everyone but himself. He was horrible to the fans and the city during Spring Training in Tucson. His declining skills and poor attitude is not worth the money the Orioles would have to pay him to come to Baltimore.
I good article from another small-market team's writer.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/paul_daugherty/11/03/small.market/index.html
I kinda like Dye for a DH role, but I'm not over enthusiastic. He's RH, still got some pop, and he's got a decent eye. This year, his BA went down, but his walks increased from 44 to 64. And he saw 4.2 pitches per plate appearance. That's something our young guys need to see from a veteran. Roberts saw 4.04 and he was our highest guy who began the year here. In comparison, Wigginton saw 3.55. The league average is about 3.75 if I remember correctly. The Red Sox had 3 guys in the top 10, all over 4.11. Of course, seeing more pitches is making the opposing pitcher throw more, and thus coming out earlier in the game (remember, most of the league is on pitch counts, not just the O's), meaning you as a team get to see the "lower levels" of the opposing team's bullpen. But it's really just a crapshoot to see if he could have a "Youkilis Effect" on the rest of the team.
He'll probably get some decent offer from a decent team, so we'd have to shell out $10 million a year over a couple of years. With the exception of the pitches per plate appearance and a little more pop, and being RH, he's not that different from Luke Scott numbers wise. He's obviously not a legit clean-up hitter. He was hitting #3 in front of Thome for how long. Looking at his numbers for the past years, the only advantage would be if you could get him on a cheaper contract (you won't) and then trade him after his typically hot June. In the past years, (and I'm throwing out 2007 when he was injured in June, his June BAs have been as follows: 2004 .330, 2005 .337, 2006 .324, 2008 .317, 2009 .329. Some years he cools down in July, some he cools down in August, but June is almost always his hot month. Of course, other teams are gonna know this too, so unless you have him on a good contract, or are willing to pay a large chunk of his contract, you're not gonna get anything for him in a trade.
I'd be interested in seeing him on a one year basis as an experiment, to see if he can maintain his pitches per plate appearance and how it might effect the rest of the team. Money wise, I'd only do it if you could get him for $5-7 million a year with club options (since I'm assuming Luke Scott would move up to about $4 million) and if you can trade Scott for some decent minor league depth. If you can trade Dye later, you can hope on Pie continuing to bloom and he and Reimold could share LF/DH duties for the rest of 2010. After 2010, you can go to the FA market to find another DH.
Bargains. Why? Because they aren't a significant upgrade. Good teams add these players as insurance, not as centerpieces.
Yes on Myers and Putz and NO on Dye. Lets quit fooling around and put together a trade package for Derrek Lee, include a couple of good young pitching prospects{ I believe we have some from the upper mid-west area, " Home-Boys"}along with Wiggington/Aubry and/or Montanez/Angle. Get it done ASAP before someone beats us to him when the Bankruptcy Fire Sale starts.
Dye would be an option only if he is willing to be the DH. There's no place for him in right field. Blalock would be a waste of time. I will always have fond memories of his blast to save the AL in the All Star Game, but he is chronically injured, not much defensively, and no better than Scott. Myers is a physical question mark but may be worth a look.
Trading for Cantu is appealing.
Hank Blalock at 3B? Don't think so, he's got a couple of bad shoulders and he's walking less and striking out more...I don't think that is a coincidence. If we're looking at a guy coming back from injuries, I say you take a 1 year shot at Troy Glaus who has more power anyway.
Another corner bat option for 1B is Marcus Thames. Sure he's not sexy, but the Orioles were trying to trade for him a few years back. He hurts lefties, can play 1B, corner OF, and DH. Sure he doesn't walk a lot, doesn't hit for a great average, but he has power and knocks in runs. Not suggesting he's your 4th hitter, but having him batting 5th or 6th wouldn't be too bad.
I don't like Dye. I think his numbers are trending downward and will continue to do so. Maybe if he has a full season at DH they get a boost from not having to play the field. I'm not starting him out there over any other OFer currently on this team.
I think Myers would be another Hendrickson signing, not too keen on that. I would love to see the O's sign Garland. We need a guy you can depend on to go out there and give 200+ innings a year with a solid ERA, and basically do all the little things that keep you in games.
Kick the tire candidates: Ben Sheets, Justin Duscherer, and Noah Lowry.
JPA-
1. we arent a good team
2. we would not be bringing them in as centerpieces either.They would be this years Eaton, place holders because we dont think our prospects at those positions are ready.
We have three choices IMO.
1. sign stop gap free agents to buy time (Glaus, Beltre, Thome, Blalock).
2. do nothing and let Wiggy and Aubrey be the placeholders (or prove they can excel)
3. trade some youth for a star. MacPhail, I believe did not say he wouldnt trade the kids, he said he would not trade the young core players. We dont know who he thinks are the core. Does he think Bergy is a keeper or someone who has peaked and whose value will never be higher. Does he think Jake is as highly considered as Tillman? As Matusz? Does he think Nolan will continue to improve? We dont know what he thinks about any of these kids. He obviously isnt going to say anything disparaging. So if he trades a kid as the cornerstone of a package for a star, Beau Dummie will say he lied, but it wont be true . . . again. It just means that MacPhail didnt think the kid was part of the core group for the future . . . if it happens at all.
Here's how excited I am about those players: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Jermaine Dye would be nice, if he would accept being mostly the DH. DeRosa is a gamer, can play anywhere. I think they should take a serious look at Myers. He has a lot to prove.
Roch,
None of the names you mentioned really do much for me. I've seen Blalock down here in Arlington, and yes he has some pop, but the shoulder problem has really affected his swing, and I think we get more out of Luke Scott. Putz might be a guy I take a flyer on, and if Myers didn't have the personal issue (sorry wife beater is a big issue with me), he'd be the guy.
I'm really not interested in some of the stopgaps out there for adding a bat with one exception. Vlad. This guy can roll out of bed leg problems and all and still hit. Realistically, could you see the O's going for him?
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If they could get him for a year at a reasonable cost, perhaps. But he's really in decline. Still the best bad-ball hitter I've ever seen. You could bounce it twice to the plate and he'd line a single into left-center. - Roch
How come only one person has expressed concerns about signing someone with the character of Myers? He punched his wife in front of many witnesses on a busy public street corner. This wasn't a he said-she said shoving match at home. As with most battered women, she refused to press charges. Is this the kind of veteran presence we want setting an example for all our young players? I would be disgusted with the O's if they even considered signing this coward.