O's have "payroll flexibility"
A recent Baltimore Sun article projected the Orioles' current payroll for 2010 at about 45 million dollars. That is looking at players already signed for next season and projecting arbitration-eligible players and other contract renewals.
In an interview on Tuesday, O's president Andy MacPhail would not confirm the O's current figure, but said a projection in that area is likely accurate.
"People are free to speculate about what (our payroll) it is. You can make educated guesses on where we might be. Those estimates that were written about are not terribly off the mark.
"We have some flexibility, we are not really saddled with any contracts at this point that we don't think we are getting production for. So we do think we have some flexibility going forward."
Flexibility means the club has dollars to spend.
"How it impacts free agency is going to be a function of how the market evolves over the next month or two," MacPhail said. "You can only influence half that equation. Plus, what other clubs are interested in the same thing you are and what flexibility do they have?
"There are a lot of variables that go into the equation and you don't know how these things will fall. Generally, a couple of big dominoes will sign somewhere and other pieces fall in place."
MacPhail insists any media or fan skeptics that question whether the club is willing to offer a big contract under the right circumstances, are off base.
"We offered over 140 million dollars to Teixeria, who could have just as easily accepted it and I wish he had. To think we wouldn't go out there or that offer somehow is not genuine is absurd. It's over twice what was offered in the history of the franchise before.
"People should see now why we thought that was a legitimate get. If we could have had a switch-hitting, good defensive first baseman in the middle of a lineup that already had Roberts and Jones with Markakis, Reimold and Wieters, we would have had something special going forward for a while.
"We have to be careful about who those (big dollar) players are. And I have to be responsible. Contracts of that magnitude, unless you are an extroadinarily wealthy club, can sink a franchise. You have to be judicious when you go out there. But we were out there a year ago."
So the Orioles, under the right circumstances, are not against offering a free agent a big-dollar contract?
"We've already done it. Did it last year."
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Categories (click for archive)Orioles News | Steve Melewski |
McPhail is not being honest and that is unfortunate. There was no way that 140M was going to sign Texiera.
My question is, each year the orioles claim that they attempt to sign top players. Usually they claim the market is out of whack and instead of signing the top players, they say that they will save the money for next year. Where does that money go. Year after year we hear the same thing. Shouldn't they have a stockpile of savings left over that should have be used last year to make a real offer to Texiera?
It is one thing to offer a contract when you know the player will probably not sign it. It is another thing to get the deal signed sealed and deliver.
And that is what MacPhail failed to do last year. He is also beating around the bush this year with his comments.
Dont sit here and explain what could have, would have and should have taken place
GET IT DONE and make this team competitive instead of making excuses
Steve-
But, the rumors at the time had other offers that were upwards of 20+ million more than that.
Again, it is an offer. If Zrebeic's quotes were right monday, than Angelos himself said, " We understand that where as we are not the wealthiest club in [mlb], we are by no means strapped. If we feel that $120 Million is where we need to be to compete consistently, and that is in all likelyhood what it would take in the AL East, than thats what we'll do".
I still look at annual payroll. I think that is more important. Obviously you have to look to the future a little bit, but, to pump up the Markakis and Roberts signings, is kind of spinning it. The payroll is still just $45 Million and amongst the bottom in the league, despite the market size.
Yeah they offered Tex that big contract because they knew he wasnt going to take it. Didnt have any serious negotations with him or Boras.
Not to beat a dead horse but the O's said they wanted a right handed bat this offseason as the biggest priority. They were willing to give Teixeria 20 million. Cabrera has been hitting in a pitcher's park the last two years and has hit 71 combined homers. In Camden Yards, he is probably good for 45 a year.
I heard the Red Sox were offering Clay Bucholtz for Cabrera. If that were the case and the Red Sox were going to pick up his entire salary, the trade would already be done. It isn't going to take the farm for Cabrera if the O's take his salary - it is going to take one solid prospect (Brandon Snyder who would be rendered obsolete anyway by Cabrera), one proven regular (Luke Scott) and maybe one other guy (say Lou Montanez or Aubrey or whatever). That is better than any other team will offer Detroit. The O's are finally in a financial position to outbid the Yanks and Red Sox, they should take it. Then they should sign either Harden, Bedard or Sheets to an incentive laden deal and the payroll will be 75 million and the O's will be contenders.
Yes they did offer a big contract, but if I as a fan 100% knew 145mill wasnt enough, then Andy as a GM, knew it too. When your a last place team offering less money then a first place team, you can reason that the offer was not all that genuine.
The Nationals on the other hand, knowing they are a last place team, went head over heels and for Tex and were the highest bidder. That is genuine.
Most of us fans like Mcphail, he's done a great job in all areas BUT free agency, but if he starts trying to shove Bull***t like this down our throats then I for one start to have some suspicions.
Having the payroll flexibility (MLB translation - money to spend) is only 1/3rd of the equation. The other 2 are willingness of the FA's to come to B'more, and somethng worth the price being available. With respect to the 3rd part of this equation, baseball history pre- and post-steriod era teaches that big sluggers on the wrong side of 34 yrs old do NOT maitain production for 4-5 more years. Sluggers with a history of injuries and over 34 yr. of age never do. Something to think about when trolling for middle of the lineup hitters in the FA supermarket. Those type of signings make winter headlines but seldom make winning records.
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I would guess anyone of that age they would see as more of a "stopgap" signing and try for a short term one of two year contract. Someone like Delgado would fit this category. - Steve
Spin, Spin, Spin.
lol. So where is the 140? Which is a joke anyway. They knew that was never enough to get it done.
This is a laughable team. The payroll is 45. Its been 60 or so for a decade.
Reading these types of articles is so freaking frustrating, cuz they really think everyone is just plain stupid.
Angelos has to be one of the top 2 or 3 most PROFITABLE owners in MLB, because of how little they put into the talent.
I don't care what ANYONE says. This team could easily spend another 50 or 60 million a year if they wanted to. They just don't.
So thats an extra 50 or 60 in Angelos cheap greedy, town ruining, egotistical, ambulance chasing, armani pockets.
"If we could have had a switch-hitting, good defensive first baseman in the middle of a lineup that already had Roberts and Jones with Markakis, Reimold and Wieters, we would have had something special going forward for a while."
Sounds like a certain first baseman in San Diego.
Problem is it'd take a bit more than $140 to lock AG into an extension if you could get him in a trade and we'd be crying poor then.
Brandon Snyder's minor league power numbers don't say clean up hitter either.
bxm,
The Os were not going to sign Tex. He wanted to go to the Yankees and that's where he went. All the Os would have done by offering more is looked foolish. It has been said by many people who know a lot more about the situation than either you or I, Boras NEVER replied to the Os offer. Never asked for more, just ignored it.
Baldy
I think the Orioles should be in a position now to compete reason being is that they have some good young players with experience. But to put them in the playoffs I feel they need a Big Hitter in the middle of the lineup. And two starting pitchers with one or two of the younger pitchers moving to the bullpen untill ready to start. As far as the Players I would select probably first I would go after John Lackey for my Leader of the staff then I would offer an proformance laden contract to one of the injured pitchers Sheets Bedard garland harden with ever one excepts sign because they are all the same as far as first Base Maybe Degado or Move Reimold to first and put Pie in Left sign a Guy like Guerro or Thome to DH Then for third I like Feliz or Figgons or Just bring Bell up and see what happens I dont think these move would be very expensive for the Oriole and it would add excitement for the Fans . As a Fan it would be nice to open the baltimore Sun and See the Orioles makin moves Instead of excuses tired of every year the Orioles are gonna do this and that and turn out at the end of the winter signing bottom feeders just to say they did something
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Lackey would be expensive and I don't see him wanting to make half his starts in the AL East vs. the Yankees, Red Sox and TB. He could get from 80 to 100 million.
Steve
For some fans that frequent Steve and Roch's blogs, Mr. MacPhail will never be viewed positively. He's criticized when he doesn't address every decision or lay out the plan in full detail, which most GM's don't. When he comments, he's chastised for misleading or lying. We could easily be back in the situation we were in a few years ago, signing the token free agent for big dollars and still finish in fourth. The farm system has been turned around and soon those prospects will pay off with performance and trade bait. Down the road, we may be better off trading these prospects for players, so we don't have compete in the open market for free agents. I don't have a problem with the team's direction.
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Kevin, you are making too much sense. Good post. Steve
PS - One reason the team is stockpiling young pitching is because it is the most coveted commodity in the game. Every team wants pitching, all the time. Those that have it will be in great position. If many of the O's young hurlers turn out to be solid ML talents, in a year or two they will have a surplus. Then, they would be better positioned to trade some for a big bat like Gonzalez, yet still have enough pitching left to win. - Steve
The Orioles would have 0 income or earnings, which equals revenues-costs at a payroll of about 120 million. In 2008 their payroll was 92 million and earnings 27 million. If you add the 27 million to the 92 you get a breakeven figure of 119 million. With a payroll of 45 million the Orioles will have income or earnings of 75 million. This is record setting. The highest income any team has had since 1990 is 43.7 million. Orioles gate receipts in 2008 were 47 million. Next year we could let everyone in for free and still have earnings of 28 million, putting us in the top ten. Truly the Orioles are a team run to make money.
It would have been nice to see what TEX's response would have been if we offered 185 million, which we easily could have afforded.
Andy MacPhail's offer to Tex was legit. Am wasn't foolish enough to think that Tex would sign at that number, just looking to get a feel on the number Tex was after. Turns out Tex wanted to become a Yankee come hell or high water. So was MacPhail really lax in chasing Tex? Not really, Tex and Boras never responded with a counter off, thereby never letting AM (or any other team) have a chance to counter offer or sign Tex.
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Some have other opinions, but that's the way I believe it played out. Tex, after telling reporters for years how much he wanted to play in Balt, never really did. The fact the O's weren't even asked for a second offer speaks volumes and tells you all you need to know. - Steve
Dave,
See my above post. If Tex had been willing to come here for $185m, Boras would have countered the Os offer.
Baldy
"We have to be careful about who those (big dollar) players are. And I have to be responsible. Contracts of that magnitude, unless you are an extroadinarily wealthy club, can sink a franchise. You have to be judicious when you go out there. But we were out there a year ago."
It's worth noting that a bunch of mid size contracts to players are slightly above average also can sink a franchise. The contracts doled out 3 years ago (Huff, Baez, Bradford, Walker) were as inefficient as the Belle contract in a lot of ways.
MacPhail's offer of 140 mil was bogus from the start. It was well known that Tex had turned down that amount from the Rangers the year before.
Typical spin.
Maybe we could have offered tex 200 mil and compete with the yanks and sox if we averaged more then 25,000 per game in attendance. Win or lose real fans come out to the game and show support. i'm mad as hell with 12 years of losing but if it gets worse we wil never compete. death to false fans.
We have payroll flexibility in a year when the free agent class is terrible. I feel like we can't get a break! Pretty soon we're going to have to spend the big bucks and tighten up elsewhere to keep some of these young players around, like AJ.
I guess its just one of those things. We'll be a high payroll team again one of these days.
As much as I'd like to see the O's to sign a few of the better FAs this winter like Bedard, Beltre, Harden, Glaus, etal, the only way for AM to get them is to be less "responsible" and overpay them. Why would any of them come to a team full of potential vs. a definite contender for the same money? Seems like the kids will need to get the team to .500 before any quality FAs would seriously consider the O's w/o dramatically overpaying them. A catch 22?
Peter Angelos became owner of the Orioles in 1993. Here is where our team payroll ranked in the major leagues, after he became owner.
1994: 10th
1995: 2nd
1996: 2nd
1997: 2nd
1998: 1st
1999: 5th
2000: 12th
2001: 12th
2002: 16th
2003: 15th
To say that Angelos is "unwilling" to spend money is ludicrous. I mean, all 3 of those years we finished 2nd in payroll, only the Yankees ranked higher than us. He's clearly willing to spend money when he trusts his GM knows what he's doing, which hasn't really been the case since Pat Gillick left in 1998. (Notice the significant dropoff in payroll after his departure.) All the signs suggest he has faith in Andy MacPhail - I suspect once MacPhail thinks we can start competing, the checkbook will be opened.
In my opinion, Angelos's biggest failing is his inability to pick good GMs - but he's got it right this time. We just have to be patient.
Wow, Brummie/Jack used alot of alter egos in this post. None of you have a very good memory, kinda like MSNBC. Boras said he didn't return MacPhail's phone calls because Tex only wanted to go to New York. Tex is the enemy here. He lied to everyone back when he was with Texas and said his dream was to play for his home town team. MacPhail made one offer and Boras never got back to him, it was also an offer of over 140 million for one less year than the 8 year deal the Yankees gave him. It actually wasn't far off in yearly salary. But that doesn't matter, Tex isn't here, He didn't want to come here, and now we have to move on.
I also hope you all don't want the Orioles to just go out and spend money just so the numbers are in the top 10 in salaries, but the quality we get isn't that good. Who do you want to pay 150 million to that is on the free agent market at the moment? To me, no one is good enough to get that kinda contract. As far as Lackey, MacPhail has said he doesn't sign free agent pitchers for more than 3 years, which I totally agree with him. There is no pitcher on the market now that deserves more than a 2 year contract. If you talk about Gonzalez from San Diego, Fielder from Milwaukee, or even Cabrera from Detroit, you have to trade one of our best pitching prospects and 3 or 4 others to get them, too costly. Lets not mortgage the future just to get us to .500. If you want to give an incentive laden contract to players like Sheets or Badard, that is OK, but a big contract to any free agent is just a waist of money. Be patient people, Mr. MacPhail has just been here 2 yrs. He will bring us a winner.
Steve, sorry for the rant, Hope you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving!
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Some good points, Rich......thanks, Steve
Steve-
I just read where the Phillies are in strong pursuit of Beltre. So, we can cross him off the O's list. Now, as I think about it, I get really fired up. The reason we can't ever sign someone "above average", is because, obviously other teams are going to want them. I automatically cross the O's off because the decent FA's will never come to baltimore. The ONLY way we will ever get decent FA is if we overpay, and this isn't a team that has EVER been prone to doing that.
It's easier for them to sit back and say "They just didn't want to come here, we offered". That's because WE FREAKING LOSE ALL THE TIME, because WE CAN'T SIGN ANYONE!
So, its a catch 22.
I wish one of you guys in your interviews with Macphail would bring the topic of overpaying up, at least until we start winning again and maybe we could be the favorites to land FA's once in a while.
Until then, we are such a joke team to everyone except you guys who cover the team.
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I have talked to MacPhail about having to "overpay." We even addressed it in my most recent interview. it's not his favorite topic and he said it's an individual decision by each player where he wants to go. He also the O's need to beat all teams in chasing free agents, not just the Yankees and Boston. Probably not the answer you want to hear.
But we can't expect him to say either "yeah, we are baseball dormats and must pay much more than another team for a player." - Steve
I think the best way to build is thru the farm system. We should over pay the young players to come here ( like from Cuba) or anywhere else. If we over pay these guys, its not like overpaying a free agent 140mil. Spend on the elite young and sign the best young talent in bunches. Thats where we should be targeting our dollars. If they fail or get hurt we didn't lose 140mil on one guy. But we can buy many elite young talent for that.
"We have to be careful about who those (big dollar) players are. And I have to be responsible."
Yes, Andrew, you have to be responsible to Ole Pete and his profit/loss statement.
Sure seems like Andy is simply towing the line set forth by ownership. Give the fans hope but don't actually spend any money.
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Don't you even take Holidays off from O's bashing? - Steve
David, give the rest of the salary ranks.
2004 20
2005 14
2006 15
2007 10
2008 22
2009 23
From 1994 to 1999 Angelos was interested in winning, afterwards he's clearly interested in making money. From 2000 on he's acting like a small market team despite a large influx of MASN money. From 2000 to 2009 25 teams raised their payroll an average of 94%. Three teams lowered their payroll a little. Two teams lowered their payroll alot, San Deigo 20% and the Orioles 19%. Next year the drop from 2000 will be over 40%. What we see is a huge change in behavior thats lasting over ten years. The Orioles a team run to make money. Its no coincidence we've had 12 straight losing seasons with this behavior.
It's sad to see a couple posters complaining about things they clearly do not understand. Go read a few stories on the courtship of Tex to refresh your memories and then come back to tell us all what the front office should have done.
Also, I think it's important to consider the motivations of a potential free agent. If a player is simply following the biggest paycheck to his new team, then I wonder if their heart is really concerned with winning. Having a well paid player who isn't excited about the team is the last thing we need around our younger players.
Steve,
Smash this parasite before it gets too big. If you'd like to babysit him the way Roch has been forced to do, go ahead. I recommend you lay down the hammer before it gets that bad. He's only here to make outlandish statements to get attention.
I think the O's shouldn't be wasting time on Lackey because everyone in the world (including Lackey himself) knows that he will not end up in Baltimore. He is not in the early stages of his career and probably wants to go to a team that can bring him to the W.S now. The O's are still a few years away from that. So why wouldn't the O's go after someone that they actually have a shot at. Such as Bedard are possibly Wolf. Plus, they could get a #1 and #2 pitcher for the price of a #1. Signing say...Bedard and Marquis or some variation of some of those names could be more useful at this stage in the development process.
Dave said,
"From 1994 to 1999 Angelos was interested in winning, afterwards he's clearly interested in making money."
Look at the record of the team for those six years and maybe you'll understand. Three of those years the Os finished under .500 {95, 98 & 99}. Angelos learned you can't throw money into contracts and expect a winner, it doesn't work.
Baldy
Andy McFAIL will not return the O's to glory. He trades off of his grandfather and father, and the fact that the Twins team he was GM of won 2 titles, which had nothing to do with him. When he got the job with the Twins (due to his grandmother's biz relationship with Pohlad), the Twins were already in place. Calvin Griffith purged the expensive deadwood and brought up Puckett and Hrbek from A ball, and Viola and others from AA. The key though was Tom Kelly, who is one of the best managers ever. McFAIL simply had the nepostistic good fortune of getting the job in 1987 when the Twins won the title. Now he is trumpeted to Bud Selig, by his son in law, Laurel Prieb, who was Andy's gopher with the Twins, before he met Selig's daughter. Prieb, who was hired off the streets by the Twins, as a minimally-paid errand boy, is McFAIL's good friend. So Selig is already selling McFAIL as his replacement. Yet, the only thing McFAIL has ever done is be born into the McPhail family, which by the way, treated players like slaves.
McFAIL had all the money he asked for with the Cubs and couldn't win. Now he'll muck up the Orioles.
But because of his lineage and current chuminess with Selig and his unskilled son in law (who Selig gave a cushy Arizona job in MLB to) McFAIL will continue to prosper in baseball, although he's been a failure and done nothing praiseworthy, just like Selig's son in law. It's all about nepotism, but no more so than in major league baseball.
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Why the animosity??? - Steve