About last night...
If you missed it last night, you woke up to some pretty exciting news.
Rodrigo Lopez signed a minor league deal with the Arizona Diamondbacks.
Also, the Orioles reached agreement with closer Mike Gonzalez and corner infielder Garrett Atkins.
These things can happen quickly - and while you're wearing a coat a tie and filling a small plate with appetizers. But I did find it convenient that the MASN WebStudio was two floors below me. And hey, who doesn't love rushing out of a holiday party (twice) to do more work?
I'm trying to find another one tonight so the Orioles sign Matt Holliday. (More on that rumor later). It would be my first Holliday party, but as long as it includes an open bar, I'm good.
I'm fine with both acquisitions, which are still pending the completion of physicals. Neither one is going to raise goosebumps, but they're pretty solid and fill two needs.
Gonzalez is a lefty who can bring nasty stuff into the ninth innings, and he still holds value at the backend of the bullpen if he's eventually bumped from the closers role.
Atkins has some pop, though we'll find out how much after a down year in Colorado and declining numbers over the past four.
Atkins also plays first base, giving president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail and manager Dave Trembley some flexibility.
And he could be moved at the non-waiver trade deadline if Josh Bell (or Brandon Snyder, depending on where Atkins starts) is ready to be promoted.
Gonzalez will cost the Orioles their second-round selection in next year's draft, but they don't care. The scouting department had no issues with surrendering that pick to sign a Type A free agent, and the Orioles can pay over slot for a lower-round selection with second-round talent.
We haven't exchanged Christmas presents yet, and the Orioles have their No. 1 starter, a closer and a corner infielder. They'll want to add at least one more bullpen arm, another corner infielder (again, depending on where they envision Atkins) and perhaps another starting pitcher.
As for Holliday, FOXSports reported that the Orioles jumped into the bidding for him. But the story is quick to include the following: though both the seriousness of their efforts and Holliday's desire to play in Baltimore are in question, major-league sources say.
Scott Boras represents Holliday. He also represents Gonzalez, so the Orioles have held lengthy discussions with him. I'm sure Holliday's name has come up, and MacPhail obviously is trying to determine what it would cost to bring him here.
As the article states, the Orioles are a longshot. I'd say an extreme longshot. But it makes sense for them to inquire about Holliday and anyone else on the market who could lift them out of last place and start filling seats at Camden Yards.
The same goes for Adrian Gonzalez. Gordon Edes tweeted - and again, I can't believe I'm using that word - that the Orioles made a run at the Padres' first baseman during the Winter Meetings. I hadn't seen this reported anywhere else, and the Baltimore media was given the opposite impression.
MacPhail's rules in this matter haven't changed. He's not giving up his best young pitching and he's not renting a player for two years, so I'm not sure how far he ran.
I'll naturally place another call to him later today and see if he'll confirm any of these reports.
Also, I apologize for not answering your questions last night. There was too much going on and I'd still be in that WebStudio if I hadn't just approved them. But to quickly respond to a few of them:
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Categories (click for archive)Roch Kubatko | Roch Kubatko Orioles |
With Atkins signed, I think the Orioles will pursue the best corner infielder they can get and then put Atkins in the other corner infield spot. My guess on the Holliday rumors are that they are being fed by Scott Boras to increase the profile of his client and put pressure on St Louis to increase its offer. I can envision that during a break in the Gonzalez negotiations Boras said something like.. by the way, I also represent Matt Holliday, would you like a bat like his in your lineup? The Orioles rep would reply, sure but he would never come here. Thus the Orioles expressed interest in Holliday.
The Gonzalez deal makes trading Sherrill look even worse. Six million dollars for a closer -- that's a pretty expensive hubcap for a last place team, wouldn't you say? And he only saved 10 out of 17 last year. Give me a break.
Roch;
My feeling is that a team can never have too many Lefty relievers and Gonzalez was very good when healthy last year. I seem to remember a tweaked elbow around or after the All Star beak but it was minor.
Scenario 1: Glass Half Full - the one we should all hope for:
O's sign Holliday. Use the glut of outfielders to trade either Jones or Reimold in a package with Tillman for Adrian Gonzalez creating a team with a respectable payroll and a seriously fearsome lineup.
I don't even want Holliday personally. He could be great or could be nowhere near worth that contract. But if he helped us get Adrian Gonzalez - it'd be worth it.
Those of us sick of budget baseball and not getting top current talent rejoice. More fans come to the ballpark. With some luck O's could be battling for possibly 2nd place in AL East in perfect world. 3rd place is well within grasp. Main point serious progress is made. And it gets better every year after.
Scenario 2: Glass Half Empty
O's put in Token Offer V 2.0 ( we know who token offer 1.0 was). We'll get "he didn't want to come here" excuse which will coincidentally coincide with our offer being the lowest/least years on the table.
Garret Atkins, Mike Gonzalez, Millwood, and a Delgado-esque player are our big signings - filling our team with more aging stop gaps on the downside of production and careers (Mike Gonzalez aside - i like that signing). Maybe toss in a Bedard for our high ceiling, reclamation project.
Fans like me are severely underwhelmed. Budget conscious, gun shy about trading prospects fans rejoice. Stadium is still empty next year. Fourth place is all ours!
I'm hoping for scenario 1...but after last year I know not to get my hopes up.
Shortly before 1 am on Thursday, paramedics arrived at a gruesome scene in suburban Maryland. A poster known as "KyleProBoller" was found with an exploded head, slumped over his computer with a popular MASN blog on the screen. His keyboard was split in two. From what investigators have gathered from reviewing KBP's internet history, the rare physical phenomenon of internet-rumor-induced-exploding-cranium was the result of KBP reading a story on FoxSports about his purported favorite team, the Baltimore Orioles, having expressed an interest in making an offer to top free agent outfielder Matt Holliday. KBP had been building a "ground swell" of support for such a move on Roch Kubatko's blog, but was met with heavy resistance from those opposed to the move based on realistic expectations from a rebuilding team. Having seen the report that reinforced his view, KBP apparently went to MASN's School of Roch blog to gloat. The enormity of the situation and excitement were too much, causing KBP's head to explode while simultaneously a spasm caused him to rend his keyboard in two as he frantically tried to post. Reached for comment, MASN's Roch Kubatko said, "I never thought I'd be connected to an exploding head." He then laughed and added, "That's what she said."
Like the gonzalez deal, atkins stinks. I hope Bell proves himself mlb ready at some point this year cause Atkins wont add much. i'm confused as to where we put Holliday if he comes here. Roch,I know it's a real long shot but Who moves in the outfield in your opinion? I would guess Reimold since he's not really regarded as anything spectacular fielding wise. I've even heard the words below average mentioned for his fielding.
Orioles looking to sign Matt Holliday??? Do tell!
If this happens the Holliday haters on this board will all be eating a lot of crow.
Gonzalez was a quality signing. AM gets a 1 week reprieve from my bashing.
History repeats itself, again.
The O's dump Mora and sign a guy with similar stats last year for less money. They are simply replacing dead wood with termite infested wood.
And don't fall in love with Atkins pre-2009 folks. Remember he played half his games at Coors Canniveral. ESPN says his numbers are set to DIVE in B-more plus he will be playing in a REAL league.
I love the move for Atkins, comes cheap and if he still continues to decline, who cares we actually have prospects. If we were to sign another outfielder such as Holliday (IF), what would we do with our current outfielders? I'm assuming we would move Pie but with Reimold, would try and convert him to DH or 1B?
I left work yesterday with a feeling that something was happening, but concluded it was just the bean soup I had for lunch. Thought maybe the MLBTR about Atkins being close was related to the O's, but getting him and Mike Gonzalez was surprising. I'm all for both moves. The #s for Gonzalez speak for themselves. Don't know why some are playing up the see-we-do-deal-with-Boras angle, because the Wieters signing proved that. I guess the continued criticism has to be addressed, even if off base. Also, I agree Atkins is a low risk move that brings flexibility - 1B, 3B, trade bait, or dumped depending on his performance and Bell/Snyder's development.
I'm not getting my hopes up about Holliday. It could be Boras trying to put up a Potemkin bidder to get the Cards to up their offer ("What's that, Andy? Did you say Happy Holliday, as in Matt Holliday? Thanks, that's all I needed. [click] Yeah, Suzie, get me Ken Rosenthal on the line..." He's in a bad position and knows it. On the other hand, if the idea is for Reimold to move to 1B, it makes sense. The one good thing I see is that if the O's are seriously interested and able to make an offer, and if Holliday has interest in coming here, they are bidding against a team in the Cards that has the future Pujols contract looming in their two-year forcast. It's not like bidding against the Yankees or Sox. Still, hitting the # at which point the Cards would back out, all the while convincing Holliday to come here, the chances seem remote. We got two needs filled yesterday, plus Brooks is getting a statue befitting his status near OPACY -- all good things.
Do I need to say it? Does anybody here remember Glenn (sp?) Davis but me? Trade away two young stud pitchers for a first baseman...what a good idea. Let's sign Adrian Gonzalez yesterday!
Great news this morning!!! One thing on Holliday, I was watching Marks and Garceau and they interviewed Brian Roberts who apparently is very close friends with Holliday so is this as far fetched as it sounds? Any more word about Bedard?
This is a good day for Orioles fans.
Mike Gonzalez's career ERA is 2.57. Last year, it was 2.42. What's more, he will turn 32 next year, and he's only signed through age 34. I can't remember the last time an Oriole had a career ERA that low--maybe Jim Palmer?
As for Atkins, he was the best available 3B who would sign a one-year deal. Chone Figgins and Adrian Beltre are getting WAY overpaid over multiple years, and aren't much better than Atkins. The one year deal also keeps the O's from having to rush Bell. Sure, it'd be nice to say that Troy Glaus or Jim Thome could go back to the days when they played 3B, or that Dan Uggla or Miguel Tejada could pick up the position with ease, but, for the sake of the young pitchers, it's nice to have an able-bodied bona-fide 3B playing the position.
These signings, if coupled with Erik Bedard and Nick Johnson/Adrian Gonzalez, should be enough to get the Orioles over .500 and past the Halladay-less Blue Jays. That, in turn, should make the Orioles a more attractive destination to next year's free agent class, including Brandon Webb, Josh Beckett, and Cliff Lee.
please sign Matt Holiday. that would be awesome
Roch
In your opinion could the Orioles be trying to obtain Adrian Gonzalez with this signing? Obtaining Matt Holliday would give the O's an excess of outfielders. They could move one or two outfielders along with Brandon Snyder and potentially other prospects.
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If you mean signing Holliday, I don't see it happening. Not even close. The Orioles aren't going to pay that kind of money for him. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it and take the heat, but no way I see that happening. - Roch
I'll believe their interest in Adrian Gonzalez and Matt Holiday when one of them is wearing an O's uniform..... and Garrett Atkins.. please, he's another washed up has been who benefited from the thin air at Coors field. This team needs to prove to the fan base and the rest of the league they are serious about winning. Garrett Atkins and Mike Gonzalez certainly don't do that.
Great movie..about last night. I actually went to Chicago this year for 3 Cubby games and it is an ureal experience...a lot of fun..
Who do you think is the realistic target for 1st Base? Who is out there who will sign a one or two year contract who has a nice bat and will not break the bank????
Very excited about the moves this year. The Orioles under MacPhail are def moving in the right direction, maybe not as fast as some would like, but the right direction...
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Assuming Atkins plays third, it's the usual band of suspects, including Delgado, Blalock and Johnson. - Roch
Does Ken Rosenthal hate you? I hope you like busy because between Holliday and Gonzalez there are going to be a lot of rumors to chase down.
"The Orioles, meanwhile, might only participate in the Holliday sweepstakes as a token gesture, an effort to demonstrate to their fans that they are trying to improve." - KR
I know Kenny doesn't see eye to eye with PA, but doesn't he understand that this FO gets no credit for token gestures and that it would be more likely to piss people off than if the O's never looked into it. The O's are not throwing out a bunch of retreads this year which means I could envision a real effort despite it being a longshot. I do not feel like pretending to go after a big name lends any credibility to this organization. If anything it would perpetuate our reputation for dipping our toes in the water and then running scared from a big pricetag (in the last 5 years anyway). I'm ready to let AM do his thing for another few months before any grades are handed out.
I also can't stand twitter. I prefer to call the users of twitter - twits. Doesn't seem to be catchy among that crowd though. Imagine bringing in Holliday... ok I stopped, I'm sure even extreme longshot is being kind. By the way, how many Boras clients do the orioles have now. Seems his name has come up alot over the last few years, or maybe it was just weiters talk.
I'm not an Atkins fan but its a short term situation, with some upside hopefully, at little cost. Kouzmanoff would still be a good addition if they don't want to give Wigginton regular ABs at one corner.
And with this signing, Uggla now comes back into play as a proven DH slugger vs. a poor defensive 3rd baseman that can hit. He's better than hoping someone else that they could add has a comeback year. Hernandez and Abreu might work. Or Hernandez and Scott in a 3 team trade, with the Marlins flipping Scott for more arms since they don't want him.
Not moves that rank up there with the Yankees or Sox but good additions.
AM is on a roll. Any more presents before Christmas?
Roch
Agree that the Holliday rumor is probably a longshot.
Though Andy has publicly stated his reluctance to trade his young pitching,
but what if the O's and Padres have a framework in place contingent on the O's signing Holliday.
Specifically, a Tillman, Jones, Scott, Hernandez and Snyder for A.Gonzales with AG inking an extension.
"Rodrigo Lopez signed a minor league deal with the Arizona Diamondbacks."
So much for his return as a veteran presence to help stabilize the rotation.
As for the fact that the Orioles have signed two free agents and made a trade for a front of the rotation starter, all with more than a week to go before Christmas:
But, but, but... I thought AM was only reactive, not proactive? I thought the Orioles were going to wait till all the good ones signed and they'd have to take the dregs that were left? And now there are reports that the team has at least had some discussions about Holliday and A. Gonzalez? Geez, how does MacPhail have time to do all this if he has spent the offseason playing golf and going to holiday parties? Maybe he has the ability to conduct Oriole business without reporting his every move to the press in advance.
I expected more moves than just Millwood, and was more than content to see what developed, confident that the team would be improved as a result of the moves yet to be made. But this is starting to exceed my expectations with the potential quality of the moves and the speed with which they are happening. Exciting stuff!
Now if we can just get Andy to double as Athletic Director at the University of Maryland my Christmas stocking would really be stuffed full.
Is it possible the Orioles jump into the Holliday bidding the gain brownie points w/Boras? By jumping in they increase demand and drive up price for this player, hopefully gaining some edge in future dealings w/Boras........This theory requires trusting an agent future intentions, I guess I just blew up my own theory.
At first I thought this was a joke after reading the Lopez signing. Never thought the O's would pull the trigger on a class A free agent like Gonalez. Great move! Now I just knew the Holliday rumor was a joke but now I hear it could happen! What the hell is going on! Are the Orioles trying to win! The Adkins signing is right up the O's alley, not a suprise. I think Mora is a better player but I hear he is friends with Holliday and if that's what it takes to bring him here so be it. I think Roberts is also Holliday's buddy. I'm all about the buddy system. I don't know if Holliday is a super star but this would give us alot of depth and trade options. Keep going O's!
I DID wake up to some exciting news.... Vinny Suckup Cerrato has resigned!! Little danny's puppet is gone!
Gonzalez is OK, better than in house options, I'll assume Valverde was out pricing himself. He would have been a much better option.
Atkins , I am dubious about. He couldn't keep his starting job in Colo. & hit .230 there? His power has dropped the last 2 yrs too. I guess a 1 yr flyer makes it worth the risk. They are .500 at best this yr anyway so he isn't going to gum up anything if he is done.
I note the effort though. It is somewhat encouraging. If Holliday $igns here, a HUGE IF, I'll be stunned & give the proper props to the FO. Aopparently no west coast team is stepping up to sign the guy, I guess he has to reconsider East teams now?
Roch, how did you get a tie on a medium-large Tee shirt? :-)
Roch:
It appears you and I were two of the few with vision enough to see Holliday making sense for the O's. We've made some preliminary moves to pave the way. We signed a close friend of his in Atkins...we've also completed a deal with his agent in signing Gonzalez. This is going to happen...as soon as it does, I will be ordering my Holliday, away O's jersey!
Gosh!!! The stuff I miss when my internet goes down for one night!! Very good signings....
Just thinking... this seems like a pretty nice start to the off season. If the Matty H. intrest is genuine I may just SWOON...
I'm not sure this news will change anyone's opinion, but we're just going to have to trust Andy. I understand why people don't, given the history, but he hasn't given us any reason not to trust him. He probably would have preferred that noone ever found out about negotiating with SD for AGon. The likely reasons he's secretive has been spelled out very clearly but some posters. I'm also kind of surprised at the feeding frenzy mentality here when we sign someone and suddenly it raises the expectations. There's gratitude for you. The life of a GM I suppose.
Nice work Roch.
I'm excited about Gonzalez. He is solid and provides proven veteran leadership in the pen. As for Atkins, who seems to be the same player as Wiggy, not so much. Maybe he'll be part of a trade package.
Atkins for a year gives Snyder and Bell time to mature, and the one-year contract increases Atkins' incentive to perform well - an incentive that Melvin Mora had apparently lost. A longer contract would have represented a roadblock to the young talent - I'd rather have moderate expectations at third for a short period than a hot rental who blocks what may be better long-term talent. As many point out here, Atkins also has a high probability of returning to previous productivity levels.
For myself, one benefit of being a fan is how it continually refreshes the wellsprings of hope (which goes hand in hand with the black pit of disappointment). I think this move was well conceived, and I look forward to seeing how it plays out on the field.
These moves are good and well thought out. Once again the negativity is people just looking for attention. (Roch's going to post your comments anyway).
Nobody expects the O's to win the division this year, so it's about improving. Mike Gonzalez (who I've been asking about constantly, sorry Roch) is a high strikeout, low era pitcher who will help solidify the bullpen. A bullpen of Gonzalez, Johnson, Koji, Hernandez, Berken and Hendrickson is much better then last season.
Atkins is a safe pickup. Obviously has big potential, hopefully Crow can workout his problems. If Atkins fails to produce, so what. One year contract and Bell should be ready. If he does produce, then great move! It doesn't hurt that Holiday is his boy. I would rather him be at 3rd then Mora.
With these 3 pickups so far, this team is already better then last year. The rotation is better, and obviously J.J. isn't meant to close. I hope we get Steve Johnson back, but now we know why we needed the spot on the 40.
If the O's can figure out how to trade for Adrian Gonzalez without giving up 2 of the Big 3, i will be ecstatic. Then if they can convince Holliday here i think we might have a 500 or better team.
Roch, I like the Mike Gonzalez signing and am lukewarm on Atkins. The signing of Gonzalez brings in a solid reliever with success at closing (so much for my talk yesterday of having options within). He has fairly solid numbers and I imagine he’ll step in right away as the team’s closer. As for giving up a second round pick to sign him—I’m not too worried about that. The club just picked up one of the better relievers available on the market.
As for Atkins, it’s hard to get excited about a player who seems to be at best average at defense and in a multi-year offensive decline. But it’s a low commitment deal, and maybe he can return to at least his 2008 numbers (that’s a big maybe and I’m not counting on it). The good news is that, unlike other years, the O’s have a third base prospect waiting in the wings. I won’t beat the club up for taking a chance on Atkins even if it doesn’t work out.
As for Holliday and the other Gonzalez, everyone needs to stop teasing. Obviously both players would make this club significantly better. Don’t think either will be on this team next season, though.
Roch,
Lol at the Holliday party, well played. Even if we don't land Holliday or Gonzalez it was definitely an nice flury of moves to fill the closer role and get a nice upside stop gap to play 1st/3rd base in Atkins. The fact that the O's are even mentioned in the other two is surprising but with teams not seeming to desire to meet Hollidays high demands and the O's having some $ who knows what could happen. Maybe this is a case that the O's actually are willing/able to over bid a team to get a quality player. I know his contract was over priced for what I think he is worth but if teams like the Sox and Cardinals don't want to go that high then at least we have an idea of what the O's would have to offer to obtain him.
Brummie_Oriole said:
Gonzalez is a decent move. Good job ANDY. Unfortunately this move should have been made a YEAR ago. The pen is a mess and Dandy Andy only now gets around to dealing with it???
And Atkins???
Is this a bad joke? Is the FO trying to LOSE?
The only reason we signed him is that he comes CHEAP!
December 17, 2009 2:58 AM
Darn boy, say good job but still bust Mr. MacPhail in the same sentence. What makes you think Gonzalez was available last year. What is your problem son. This has to be a mental issue. What did MacPhail do to you that makes you hate him so. Did your mom have a crush on him and he turned her down? Also, I am not crazy about Atkins, it is stupid to say the front office is trying to lose. You need to get out of the make believe world you live in. Just a child with a computer in a basement in Chicago.
You're right Roch, These signings are not the type to make you want to run through the streets, jumping for joy, but as you said, fill a need. The other media outlets questioning our seriousness about Holliday comes from our past performances when pursuing the real stars. Our FO performance in those dealings remind me of a hunting dog with a sinus problem.
Roch,
My impression from the Rosenthal article is that it is not to far fetched to beleive that the O's could possibly, maybe, have a chance, would have a shot of .....signing Chris Sabo. J/K of course Im talking about Holliday. With Atkins coming it just helps the chances.
Will we step in on these Gonzalez trade talks?
-Steve
Roch... no offense, but regarding various rumors you keep saying the local media has been given no indication of this and that... They didn't seem to have any indication that MacPhail would make a trade during the winter meetings or the signings of Gonzalez or Atkins were imminent. So what the media has or has not heard would seem to be completely irrelevant in terms of signing Holliday or trading for Adrian Gonzalez or whatever the O's will do next. I know it's part of your job to speculate, but with MacPhail running the show, it seems almost impossible.
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I totally understand your point (and no offense taken). But to me, there's a big difference between those moves - we knew they pretty much had Gonzalez lumped in with the other closers and Atkins with the other third basemen - and MacPhail suddenly deciding to unload his top young arms for Gonzalez (for two years) or giving Holliday $20 mil. Just seems like such a drastic shift, and if you read the FOXSports story, its mostly about how Holliday would make sense in theory. - Roch
Bryan in Hampstead said:
I'll believe their interest in Adrian Gonzalez and Matt Holiday when one of them is wearing an O's uniform..... and Garrett Atkins.. please, he's another washed up has been who benefited from the thin air at Coors field. This team needs to prove to the fan base and the rest of the league they are serious about winning. Garrett Atkins and Mike Gonzalez certainly don't do that.
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Correct, so they should give the Padres Matusz, Jones and Wieters to get Gonzalez and they should forge Holliday's signature on a 5 year deal. Gee, I sure wish you were the GM.
Neither of these moves are earth-shattering, but our team is much better today than it was yesterday...and drastically improved from the pre-MacPhail days.
Give our GM credit. He had a plan from day one and has stuck to it. This team continues to head in the right direction.
This is all great news on the two signings!!! Even discussing Holiday as the Right handed DH/left fielder is terrific. It would allow us alot of flexiblity with the outfielders and rest. It would also allow us to consider a trade of Scott or Pie for some prospects.
I like the Gonzalez signing. The Atkins signing, to me, gets a bit of a thumbs down. He has the potential to rebound offensively, but I'm not a fan of his defense. I read that he changed his swing in COlorado, going from the sweet line-drive swing that brought him good numbers to a power swing selling out for homers. I hope we get the former here. Line drives struck well can find the gaps for doubles, or even go over the short fences, at OPACY.
Re: Holliday. I'm still not convinced he's a superstar. However, if he helps us get Adrian Gonzalez, I'm in favor of signing him. A pox on the 8-year/$130m he supposedly wants, though. Six years at %15-16m per year is reasonable. Supposedly, Holliday is good friends with Atkins and Roberts. Maybe they can help persuade him to come here. Then, with him added to the team, A. Gonzalez will see our progress and be more amenable to an extension. A rumor from the west is that the O's offered Tillman, Hernandez, Snyder, and Pie; the Padres allegedly wanted Reimold instead of Pie. As much as I like Reimold, Holliday would make him expendable, and we could thus package him for A. Gonzalez. And Holliday hitting between Gonzalez and Wieters would probably put up some good numbers.
Now THAT would make for an exciting lineup. I'd buy a Fan Fest ticket the minute after those moves were announced.
Holliday + Jones + Markakis = Best Outfield in Baseball
Reimold = Quality DH or Mediocre LF
Signing Holliday makes so much sense. Open up the vault Andy.
To follow up on the great posting by "Jeff"
I agree with him completely. As much effort as you put into this team with reporting, you think Andy would remotely keep the local media guys in the loop. Not during the negotiations, but maybe a quick text to say, this or that will be announced shortly. He seems like a very arrogant and "controlling" type individual? To sum up Jeff, you guys deserve better for being the local guys covering this team 365 days a year.
Again, no offense intended with this posting to you. I think Jeff, Roch and Peter deserve a little bit more respect from Mac!
Bryan in Hampstead said:
This team needs to prove to the fan base and the rest of the league they are serious about winning. Garrett Atkins and Mike Gonzalez certainly don't do that.
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Bryan - Judging from comments here, I would be willing to argue that that statement is not accurate!!
Brummie - MacPhail signs players before Christmas, like you wanted him to, and you are still complaining. Can the man do anything right?
Everyone - Call me crazy, (and I welcome any comments from anyone to try to pursuade me otherwise) but I don't see why we need Holliday. We have what I would be willing to argue is one of the best outfields in baseball. I would love to have his bat in the line-up, but at DH, and I don't think he wants to be a DH.
I think Adrian Gonzalez should be the priority. I have said before, I don't think we would be willing to give up what the Pad's want for him, but a guy can dream right? And I would be more than happy to be wrong in thinking that!!
Roch - Ignore the haters, we LOVE your dedication to feeding us the info we want on a regular basis. Thank You!!!
Signing Holliday makes a lot of sense and they should have some advantages in negotiations...
1. They already signed one Type A free agent so it would cost them a little less.
2. They don't have to deplete the farm system to get similar production for A. Gonz.
3. They can afford him. The team is very affordable for at least 3 more years and contracts given to our young players will have cheaper years at the beginning of what I'd assume would be 5-6 year deals.
4. They can "Front Load" the contract heavily making a contract of equal size from the Cards worth much less in present value dollars. Pay him $25MM a year for 2-3 years and then scale the contract down in size for the remaining 3-4 years it will take to sign him. That would match a) his peak years to the most expensive part of the contract and b) the years where he will make the greatest impact on team revenues (he makes them immediately relevant next year and should improve attendance).
Do it Andy, it's really a fantastic idea.
Roch,
Do you think the O's will still try to sign Mark Hendrickson? It seems to me that they have cooled on the idea a little because there was talk about that right after the season ended but I haven't read too much on the subject recently.
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If his agent would return a call, I might have a better idea. I think they'd still like to re-sign him, but it appears that MacPhail was attending to more pressing matters. - Roch
Seems like Andy has caught the national sports off guard. No rumors and out of the blue deals get done. ESPN hadn't even mentioned Atkins signing hours after it was on several other networks. Now they think Andy is not really serious about Holliday or Gonzalez. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't. But don't you think this approach keeps his costs down?
Maybe we have underestimated what PA is allowing Andy to do to bring a winner to Baltimore. It is obvious that most of us don't really follow the NL teams. But that doesn't stop many from voicing some opinion. I am just waiting to see the team assembled at spring training before voicing too much criticism of Andy. The plan seems to have been put on fast forward which should make O's fans happy.
I see a much improved team already. And who knows what other gifts we may get for Christmas?
On another note did everyone see that there will be a bronze statue of Brooks near OPACY in 2011? There is also a person hired to find ways to connect with the Hall of fame Orioles? What a great thing. Sounds like we may get the Old timers game mentioned in this blog this summer. It is starting to be fun being an Oriole fan.
Pie
Arrieta, Patton, Britton, etc any of those types from the large group at AAA & AA, but ONLY one of them, take their pick. Add Guthrie to that list if it gets the deal done. I would NOT deal Matusz, Tilman, etc.
Snyder
Hernandez OR Berken, pick one.
For A Gonzalez, BUT only if he will $ign an extension.
Make that offer, see if they bite. If not, they can move on to door #2...
Some might think this is not much of an offer, if so , then why are the O's holding on to them? All are sought after or considered top prospects , right? If ALL those lumped together aren't worth one guy, then perhaps they aren't worth having here long term either?
The Gonzalez signing is a good signing. It looks silly and leaves a bad taste in fans mouth after getting rid of Sherril.
The Atkins signing contradicts everything MacPhail and DT have said about their deires in 3rd baseman. They wanted a power hitting 3rd baseman who is above average defensively. Well, Mr. Atkins hasn't hit with too much power despite playing in Colorado. Over the last two years he has averaged
15 hr, 75 rbis, 75 Ks, 40 BB .318 OBP in roughly 475 ab
These sort of look like Melvin Mora type numbers
Roch?
Do you think that Brian Roberts can help us sign Matt because they are friends.. And the signing of Atkins might have something to do with this.. But if they sign him you dont think its going to be linked to a trade with adam jones do you? i Hope not. Your thoughts
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Holliday will go where he can get the most money. Like I said during the Teixeira saga last winter, you don't hire Scott Boras to take a hometown discount - or go to a team where your friends play. - Roch
Come on Andy....you can do it!
Make an offer to Holliday for 6 -140 mil and call it a day.
But again, then that would dip into the P/L statement pretty bad.
Reality check everyone. The ownership and FO is not going to spend the type of money it takes to bring in front of the line type players. The agents know it, the players know it and even the media knows it and even jokes about it!
We will always settle for the Ituriz, Atkins, Koji, Wigginton type players. We will never see the Tex, Holliday, Burnett or Lackey type players coming to OPACY. Now envision what happens when our studs (weiters, Matusz, Reimold, Tillman and Jones becomes free agents. They either take the "home town discount" or they too will be gone.
Sad but true
Here are Atkins’ OPS+ and WAR numbers from the last four years (keep in mind that these correct for park and league effects):
2006: 136, 6.4
2007: 113, 2.9
2008: 96, 1.0
2009: 66, -.2
Coincidentally, I found this press release from last year:
“UPI: Deaths. The swing of Garrett Atkins, third baseman for the Colorado Rockies baseball team, passed away last night after an extended bout with a rare form of bat cancer. First symptoms appeared in 2007, although diagnosis did not become official until the spring of the following year. He was 29. The Rockies organization reports that they hope to ship Mr. Atkins’ swing to Baltimore for burial. Services have not yet been announced.”
Let us now pause to reflect upon the uncertainty inherent in projecting athletic performance.
Brummie_Oriole said:
History repeats itself, again.
The O's dump Mora and sign a guy with similar stats last year for less money. They are simply replacing dead wood with termite infested wood.
And don't fall in love with Atkins pre-2009 folks. Remember he played half his games at Coors Canniveral. ESPN says his numbers are set to DIVE in B-more plus he will be playing in a REAL league.
December 17, 2009 8:25 AM
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And remember folks, Mark Teixeira played in the new Yankee stadium high school field for left handed hitters.
And the reason we signed Atkins was because he came cheap. Cheap like spending $12-16 million for two years on Gonzalez.
Some people just like to see their whine in print; like little children who pout and scream to get attention.
To quote Puck; "Lord, what fools these mortals be."
Keep whining little ones. Mommy will come home soon.
Roch
Is it safe to say the O's aren't trading any young elite pitching? I seem to remember a quote about buying bats and developing pitching. I cringe when I read rumors about Tillman leaving.
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They seem willing to dip into the surplus a little in the right deal. I think Matusz is off-limits. I don't think they want to part with Britton. Not sure if Tillman is untouchable, but it would take a special deal for the Orioles to consider moving him. - Roch
Opening day 2010--2b..roberts...markakis..rf...weiters..c...a.jones..cf...1b..free agent???..riemold..lf/dh...atkins..3b...pie/scott/snyder/wigginton..dh..isturis..ss......millwood..rhp...guthrie..rhp...bergensen..rhp...matusz..lhp...tillman..rhp....bullpen...gonzales..closer...johnson..set-up...uehera...7 inn...david hernandez...gambino rhp...hendrickson..lhp...sarfate..rhp...berken/meradith/mickilio/perrault/hoey......reserves....andino..inf....wigginton..dh/1b....turner..inf....moeller..c....montanez..of/dh or aubrey..1b/lf/dh......w-79....l-83 august..snyder..dh/1b....bell..3b....arieta..rhp....erbe..rhp....britton..lhp....w.perez..lhp....lebron..rhp....jacobsen..rhp....gamboa...rhp....patton..lhp....bascom..lhp
The signing of Matt Holliday would put us in position to deal Reimold. A package of Reimold, Tillman, and through in Luke Scott, or Brandon Snyder would be very hard for The Padres or any team to turn down or match.
When the signings of Gonzalez and "the diet" become official will we have a full 40 man roster for now?
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Correction: Yes, they'll be at 40. It's 38 now after Bass was non-tendered. - Roch
Don't forget the Orioles do have all-star golden glove Adam Jones. Reimold a rookie last year who hit 15 homeruns in half a season. Don't be surprised if he hits 30 this year. And oh yeah the number one prospect in baseball a guy named Matt Weiters.
I think those three can become stars and along with Roberts and Markakis we don't need to trade for Gonzales or spend 200 mill on Holliday
Get Holliday in here. Then ship Pie/Snyder/Berken/Hernandez to SD for Gonzalez.
Atkins is okay; a maximum 1 year diet. If he does not bail out, ring the Bell. But Camden will be better to him than the once famous hitter-friendly Coors. Not much lost.
And Gonzalez and Gonzalez on one team also looks nice. Maybe we can add another Gonzalez and invite him to Spring Training too ...
Almost forgot: what # will Aroldis Chapman wear???
Atkins didn't get the opportunities last year because the rockies were bound and determined to play Ian Stewart. Not sure where he ended up stat wise, Stewart that is, but the last I looked close to the end of the season he was hitting .228/30hrs. Stewart played because the fans were going nuts wanting the FO to give him a chance. I don't know if Atkins will rebound but knowing that they wanted you to sit the past two seasons because your team has a budding superstar on the roster has to effect you. I like the Atkins signing and if it he doesn't produce DT doesn't have worry about him standing in front of his locker calling the Manager out. I hope it works out so Bell doesn't get rushed.
I don't doubt that Mr. McPhail is testing the waters on Holliday, it's been an awfully long time with very little news swirling around him, especially for a Boras client. There is a window right now for them to swoop in and get him while the contenders are focusing on (the more correctly priced) outfield option in Bay.
I really do like the idea of Holliday in LF, then you bring Reimold to first base (and now you have 30 hr power there too). It's an interesting way to find a power first basemen in a year when none are available.
That would then free up Snyder (who they really need to move while he has some value) and Scott for a trade for more bullpen arms. Atkins/Wigginton can hold down 3B for Bell or maybe one of them figures it out.
There's a lot of ifs and supposition in that, but if that's what McPhail is thinking he is a freaking genius.
In reference to the Arizona Fall league scouting reports posted yesterday: The one about Snyder further points towards the simple fact that he has a middle infielder's bat (think Izturis power, B-Rob at best) to go with a first basemen's speed/fielding ability. He will never amount to more than a bat off of the bench in the majors. It's sad because I like the kid, but they should move him if they can get anything back for him.
JC in LA said:
They can "Front Load" the contract heavily making a contract of equal size from the Cards worth much less in present value dollars. Pay him $25MM a year for 2-3 years and then scale the contract down in size for the remaining 3-4 years it will take to sign him. That would match a) his peak years to the most expensive part of the contract and b) the years where he will make the greatest impact on team revenues (he makes them immediately relevant next year and should improve attendance).
I like this idea.
The other perk to front-loading the contract is it gives us more payroll flexibility to lock up guys like Jones, Wieters, and Matusz.
Offer Holliday 6 years and $100m, broken down as follows:
Year 1: $20m, with a $4m signing bonus
Years 2 and 3: $20m each
Years 4, 5, and 6: $12m each
That way, you're buying his peak years at a premium salary, paying less for the years when he's past his prime (which also makes it easier to trade him, should the want or need arise), and keeping some money off the books in those years to pay other deserving players.
"Chris said:
Come on Andy....you can do it!
Make an offer to Holliday for 6 -140 mil and call it a day."
What are you smoking? He's not even close to being worth that contract. That's the kind of terrible contract that ruins/cripples a franchise for half a decade.
I wouldn't offer more than 96 million for 6 years and that's being generous.
If you don't get banned for antagonizing Roch, we might ban you for over-stupidity. Please say something worth reading. My brain hurts from trying to comprehend your level of ineptitude.
have you asked andy about bedard lately? i know he checked in with his agent and heard they were looking at medical records. just wasn't sure if the millwood trade ended those talks or if the o's are still interested.
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Hoping to ask MacPhail if he returns my call. - Roch
roch is someone left off i count 38 ?
http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=bal
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You're right. I forgot about Bass being non-tendered. Thanks. - Roch
Adkins, What a BAD signing....He can't hit, he can't hit in the clutch, he doesn't have plate dicipline, his power is gone, and he can't play defense. I guess what else could or would you expect from another "key Baltimore signing for 2010." While other clubs are blending pieces together to become competive, We've picking up a #3 starter as our #1 for $9M and signing a washed up no hit/no defense 3rd basemen. I know we're waiting for kids (Tillman, Matuz,Bell,& Snyder) to show up but how about trying to sign or trade for actual GOOD or IMPACT players to blend along with with the kids of our future and our current core of players. Then if the kids show up to play for real we actually have bargining chips for trades and future draft picks, etc. This kind of signing is just why Baseball and the many Good Impact players out their don't take this organization seriously as wanting to become competitors. We keep hearing about direction, I just wonder sometimes what direction they're talking about.
Disapointing
Those who are down on the Gonzalez signing because they think that it makes the trade of Sherrill look foolish are forgetting one small thing, a young 3B named Josh Bell. If you consider the two pitchers a wash ( they are pretty close with both having pros and cons ) then we are ahead of the game because we also now have a 3B who appears to be just about ML ready. If we had made a deal of Sherrill and cash for Gonzalez and Bell would that be thought of as a bad move ? I think not. It's all about improving the club.
That being said, I'm not sure where Atkins improves us. Is he better either on D or as a hitter than Wiggy ? Nothing that I have read leaves me to think so. They appear to be the same player in many ways. However, unlike a number of posters, I have considerable faith in Mr. MacPhail and am willing to wait and see where this goes. Perhaps another deal involving one of these 2 similar players is in the offing. If they both come to ST they would be competing for the same spot, especially if we add a 1B too.
Santa please put Bedard in our Christmas stocking. Ho, Ho, Ho !!!
The only way I see them going after Matt Holliday is if it frees a part that would get them a trade for Adrian Gonzalez. hint: (Felix Pie)
Roch, my mouth starts watering thinking of a lineup with Matt Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez....plus Adam Jones, Nick, and company. I mean seriously? wow
Would you think the Padres do a trade for Adrian Gonzalez that is Arrieta, Pie, Britton, plus some low level player?
I really do however want to see Andy Sign Bedard....and I believe that is more realistic.
Anyone in Balto remember the word defense. Those who tslk about trading Jones are NUTS!! There sre other parts, just not the first or second best CF in baseball.
I am conflicted here. No fan of Atkins at all. Gonzalez seems like a good signing, but if we had kept Sherrill, a lot cheaper, and simply signed Beltre or Figgins we would have had two sure things instead of a couple of question marks, but I'll give AM the benefit of the doubt. Rodney's stock just went down fast. I wonder though if we were giving up the pick anyway, if Valverde might have been a better choice.
I'm pretty down with signing any Gonzalez not named Wiki or Rene. I think it could happen. I also thought there were a couple of excellent 3B minor league free agents available who were blocked by fatty contracts in their last clubs (I've noticed there aren't any minor league nerds here, so I never bring this stuff up)...but either way...
I kind of expected all the members of the Dan Uggla is the Orioles Third Baseman of the Future Fanclub to show their dismay at the Atkins signing. But hold out hope, Uggla Boys...maybe there is a super secret trade in the works...for Brian Roberts. Straight up, even. Sweet.
i like both the signings. Gonzalez is the closer we need! Atkins is nothing more than the stopgap that we all were talking about in the first place.
i am on my honeymoon at the Atlantis in the Bahamas right now. the wifey is up in the room taking a nap so i thought this would be the best time to catch up on my o's. can you say "devoted reader?" haha
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Nice! And I can say that, in a way, I was with you both on your honeymoon. OK, maybe not. Anyway, congrats! Many happy years to the both of you. - Roch
Way to go Os!
Atkins with a shakey bat, but a fine glove to help the defense and for exactly the amount of time we wanted. Good D while we wait for Bell.
Dummie Brummie Summary,
MCFAIL is stupid.
Atkins = Mora in stats.
Atkins Gonzales ANDY is stupid.
Birdland.
LOL.
Congrats on the three offseason pickups, more great signs of AM's resourcefulness and intuition. This only proves that no matter how many complaints and lacking trust some fans have, he is always one step ahead of us.
Which brings me to my next point. Am I the only person here that remembers Bedard as having one of the worst attitudes in baseball, not to mention the shakey health-related issues that were on the constant? Even fans in Seattle complain about his questionable work ethic and unapologetic disposition. This could deter some of the attitudes of the young arms. I also keep hearing that he wants to come back to Baltimore. Is this true? Because I haven't seen any evidence of him actually saying 'I'd be open to play for Baltimore,' just from other people saying he wants to come back. Didn't he want to leave? Of course this is just speculation and I'm not holding myself to any of this--he'd be a great pickup, he's just an extremely high risk.
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His only gripe with the Orioles was the losing. He loved pitching here and has told people that he'd like to come back. But as you say, it's risky given his health issues. - Roch
Hey Roch. Check out the grip on Gonzalez's pic. Is that a knuckle curve across the seams? Odd.