Discussing D-Cab
The University of Tennessee and Lane Kiffin reportedly have reached a tentative agreement.
They agreed that Al Davis wouldn't come within 200 miles of Knoxville.
The Orioles still haven't decided what to do with pitcher Daniel Cabrera, but they have until Dec. 12 to figure it out. That's when they'll need to tender him a contract and risk going to arbitration, or turn him loose and hope he doesn't evolve into another Curt Schilling.
The Orioles have been far more patient with Cabrera, but it's not like they were looking to ditch Schilling and get nothing in return. He was an integral part of the (cover your eyes) Glenn Davis trade - the most important, according to Frank Robinson, who disputed at the time that dealing Pete Harnisch was the biggest sacrifice.
"You just don't know which one (Cabrera) you're going to get," team president Andy MacPhail said. "There were times that it looked like he turned the corner this year, then he finished the year poorly. We'll have a better idea in terms of what other options are available to us before we have to make that decision.
"I've always been a proponent, sometimes at the exasperation of the media, that there's no reason to make a decision before you have to on a lot of these things. If you have time until a certain period, you may as well take full advantage of it, because you're going to learn more as things progress and you're going to have a better idea what your options are."
As I've pointed out, figuring out which Cabrera you'll get in 2009 is practically impossible because he changes so much over the course of a season. It can be month to month or start to start. How are MacPhail and his lieutenants supposed to know? We've all been fooled before.
It stands to reason that the Orioles would make sure they have an agreement with Cabrera before offering him a contract by the deadline. I haven't been told this, but the idea of possibly going to arbitration and having to fork over a big raise is distasteful to them.
Physically, Cabrera is fine. At least that's what the reports say. All that remains is deciding whether to give him another chance in the rotation - preferably toward the back of it - or giving up completely.
 |
Categories (click for archive)Roch Kubatko | Roch Kubatko Orioles |
Haven't we all seen enough of this guy?
Am I correct in my recall that the old rule of not being able to resign a non-offered player before May 15 has been rescinded?
If so could the O's just not offer arbitration then sign D-Cab at a non inflated arbitration salary?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're correct about the old May 15 rule no longer exisiting, unless there's been another change while I was napping. - Roch
I feel like we'll know exactly what we'll get from Cabrera. ERA around 5.00 or above, unsteady composure, innings galore, bad at holding runners on, entertaining, but more so if you're rooting for the other team.
The only question is whether he'll wear 35 and throw sliders or whether he'll wear 40 and throw exclusively fastballs. But the results are always about the same. Just check the stats.
Roch -
I know patience is getting thin for Cabrera... What about bringing in Randy Johnson for a one or two year deal to help mentor Cabrera and help him turn the corner....The 300 win's that Randy Johnson is going for wouldn't be a bad thing either ... and the way the O's are going it could take him two years to get it here.
This will actually be Cabrera's 7th year in the majors, not the 6th. We sent him down to the minors briefly a few years back and that bought us an extra year of service time...talk about prolonging the agony!
Let me know if this guy needs a ride out of town...I'll pick him up in a limo and transport him anywhere he wants to go...as far away as possible.
Might as well keep him. He is as good as Garland or Byrd would be in the AL East. We know he would be cheaper then those guys. And at least Cabrera is young enough to maybe be worth something at the deadline.
Also he does take the ball. 90 starts last 3 years. Now if the O's could only pitch him on the road.
Last 3 years:
Home: 5.91 ERA
Away: 4.51 ERA
Side Note: I logged into TypePad 6 times and none took. TypeKey or TypePad... they all suck.
Dump him. Brad Bergesen could do as well as Cabrera and that's not exactly a lofty goal...
If the Os offer him a contract for 2.5 M (about the lowest the arbitration rules allow) and he turns it down, he's an IDIOT.
He will be lucky to get a major league contract much less that kind of money. Someone should point out to him the best contract that Ponson could get after he left Baltimore was 1.5 M and he was a much more proven player than Cabrera.
Bill G. do you have a craving to see more Olson, Waters, Liz, Bass, Burres, Cormier etc?
It's funny because one could take your post as a compliment. We see so much of Daniel Cabrera in part because year after year he eats up valuable innings. If any fans should see the value in that it should be Orioles fans who witnessed the last two years.
Roch,
What are the chances of getting Oliver Perez or Jamie Moyer?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anything's possible, but I'd be floored if Moyer ends up back here. I assumed he'd stay in Philly, from everything I've read. - Roch
Hey Roch
Do we know how long he was pitching injured last year ? Because, for the first two months he was pitching like we'd hoped he'd pitch, then his velocity went down and he was all over the place walking a ton of guys again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the mystery. The club couldn't seem to find anything wrong with him, but he complained of some discomfort in his elbow/forearm area. - Roch
I still say a one-year deal even through arbitration can't hurt. We need bodies to fill the rotation so that we can keep developing our minor leaguers. An average Cabrera is an inning eater with a high ERA. Sometimes we get the 1 run complete game Cabrera and sometimes we get the 2/3 inning 7 run Cabrera. Unless we have major league pitchers pounding on our door, one more year will not damage the franchise.
It is time to move on
Are we going to make the playoffs with his replacement? Is he holding anyone back? It depends on what they'll be asking in arbitration, but assuming it's not way off the charts, there's STILL too much potential to give up on here. If he can get down to a 4-5 ERA, he can be a valuable innings-eater on this staff.
Cabrera's inconsistencies can be tagged from pitch to pitch, let alone start to start or month to month. Well past his prime and not always being able to count on anything but a set of disorienting changeups and pitch locations, Fernando Valenzuela always used to impress me because he knew how to pitch out of a jam, never gave up the fight, and never lost concentration. D-Cab is just the opposite, having all that raw talent but getting rattled and hammered after walking or hitting a couple baserunners, making a wild pitch, having someone steal on him, or giving up a two-out hit. He must be beyond the reach of a sports psychologist, considering that he seems to do nothing out there to break the predictable pattern of his erratic blowups. (Even low-level minors pitchers are taught to breathe deeply before winding up, block out distractions, and slow down the pace when they get in a jam or just get hazed by fans on the road.)
I think we should go after Oliver Perez. He's young and has proven himself. If we don't land Burnett, Perez would be a solid # 2 next to Guthrie. Then a Garland or Byrd to round out the rotation. The youngsters like Waters, Olson, Liz, Patton etc.. could fill the 5th spot. With a Teixiera our lineup looks pretty good. I'm still determining wheather to put Mora in the 2 spot or Jones. Scott is a pretty good # 8 batter.
Roberts
Jones
Markakis
Texieria
Huff
Wieters
Mora
Scott
Izturis
Roch,
For sure, DCab is the proverbial enigma. Does anyone else recall from last season when he would draw a line on the mound with his foot, straight to home plate? (Possibly to keep him squared in his delivery)
As I recall, when he did that, he was much more successful. However, as the season went on, he stopped doing that and we all know where things went from there.
osfahn, if you're going to call someone an idiot you might want to re-evaluated your opinion on Daniel Cabrera and how much money he is worth/would get. If he turns down 2.5 million he's financially a smart man. There's no way on the open market he would not at least make 4 million and that's just being completely safe. On top of that it should be a multi-year contract for teams willing to sign him. Trachsel got 3 million last year, Livan hernandez got 5 million, once again... Re-think calling Daniel Cabrera an idiot if he turns down 2.5 million.
He never learned how to win. Or never took instructions on how to win. He's not going to make it here. Tender and trade.
I wish people would stop making lineups with Texiera in them. He's not coming here. End of story.
Burnette shouldn't get more than 3 years, so that leaves him out, too.
This is isn't a make-or-break winter for McPh but he has to at least do something as significant as one of trades he made last off-season.
The only possible hope for 2009 is for a couple of young pitchers to breakthrough. I'm not laying money on that.
$ign Teix
Hey Roch
I remember them saying they found nothing wrong healthwise with him, but when watching him pitch he looked like there was something bothering him sometimes.
It's being reported that the O's are in on a three-way deal with the Cubs and Padres. You heard anything on it ?
Hey Roch,
Just saw on the Sun's website that we are the third team San Diego is trying to bring in to complete the Peavy to the Cubs deal. Sounds like we're eyeing up Pie again. That would be one heck of a defensive outfield with a whole lot of offensive potential. That could potentially be three 20 homer, 20 steal guys in the outfield down the road and a team may never get a ball down in the gaps against us with that speed. Not too mention they all have cannons for arms. What's your take on Pie? Did he play in any winter leagues this year?
Keep him. Are we all frustrated as all get out by him? Yes. But it's a one-year deal, cheaper than we'd pay a free agent for similar performance, and we desperately need starters until such time as we can fill multiple rotation slots with the good prospects.
So... do you trade Olson for Pie? I say yes. Then when you sign Teixeira (yes, I'm deluded) you deal Huff for a solid prospect or two. Pie-Jones-Markakis would be a glorious defensive outfield, Reimold/Montanez might platoon with Pie and Scott for LF and DH.
i saw the os are rumored to be the third team in the peavy by trading olson and getting pie. What do you Think?
At this point, how can you eliminate anyone from the "rotational pool?" We've got very little to pick from at this point.
D Cab is painful to watch field or bat. Probably has the worst baseball skills of any player in the majors. He is so inconsistent. I am so tired of waiting for him to develop. We will probably have to pay too much in arbitration so I think we should let him go if he develops we gave him plenty of chances.
As for Burrell, he can hit a bit -- here are some numbers from the last three years. I only think Burrell makes sense if you can get him for half of what you would pay Teixeira. Burrell is slow but as a DH it doesn't really matter (Teixeira stole 2 bases this past year). Burrell strikes out a lot but walks a lot also. His OBP is not that bad. Teixeira is a better bat and pretty good in the field but at twice the salary he is not such a bargain. Burrell for the Orioles at the right price makes some sense. We really need a power right handed batter, we have none that are any good.
Pat Burrell's Stats last three years
G HR BB SO OBP SLG AVG OPS
2008 157 33 102 136 0.367 0.507 0.250 0.874
2007 155 30 114 120 0.400 0.502 0.256 0.902
2006 144 29 98 131 0.388 0.502 0.258 0.890
Teixeira's stats last three years (combined totals for 2007 & 2008)
G HR BB SO OBP SLG AVG OPS
2008 157 33 97 93 0.410 0.552 0.308 0.962
2007 132 30 72 112 0.400 0.563 0.306 0.963
2006 162 33 89 128 0.371 0.514 0.282 0.885
The only solution the D-Cab problem is to remove his brain and install Jim Palmer's. The non-medical option is to have him hypnotized into believing he is Jim Palmer. The Socially Conscious one would be for Palmer to take him as a foster child. They're all cheaper than arbitration, though getting Palmer to sign on might be an issue.
Yo CB,
I'll be happy to comment on Olsen, Liz, Burres etc., but this blog was just about Daniel Cabrera. I feel exctly the same about him as I was feeling about Rodrigo Lopez. Yeah you can put him out there, and yeah he'll pitch a bunch of innings...a bunch of bad innings. Too bad he couldn't pitch against KC all the time, he might have a winning record. After watching him for years, he's never developed into a PITCHER (which involves a lot more than throwing 90 MPH, see Jamie Moyer)...he's just a thrower.
Hey Roch would you make theese trades if you were the Orioles or the other teams?
Ramon Hernandez for Jed Lowrie
Luke Scott for Jason Donald
Garrett Olson for Felix Pie
Even thought Donald is probally their starting 2nd basemen for a while. Also Lowrie is the starter too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, don't know enough about Donald. Otherwise, yes if you're the Orioles. - Roch
Roch:
This rumored deal with the Cubs and the Padres makes no sense. First, why do the Orioles want Feliz Pie, they have a center fielder and some good left field prospects? Second, if the deal is for the Orioles to send Garrett Olson to the Cubs (for Pie) and the Cubs send Olson to the Padres for Peavy, why wouldn't the Orioles just upgrade their pitching by sending Olson to the Padres for Peavy? Pie is unproven and we don't need to be part of a deal that helps the Cubs improve their pitching while we lose a badly needed starter. How reputable is this rumor?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peavy won't come here, and it would take more than Garrett Olson to get him from the Padres. But if the Orioles can get Pie from the Cubs and only have to surrender Olson to the Padres in a three-way, you do it. Left field isn't a major need here, but he's an intriguing prospect and a huge defensive upgrade over Luke Scott. It also would suggest that the Orioles are bracing for the likelihood that Aubrey Huff plays first base in 2009. - Roch
Roch,
Check this out. What do you think?
Orioles get Pie-Marquis-Greene.
Cubs get Peavy-Roberts.
Padres get Vitters-Olson-Samardzija-Thomas/Cedeno
Thank you. thank you. Please forward to MacPhail and I will collect my finders fee (which is a rubber crab hat from the Inner Harbor).
Ok maybe if we're iffy about dealing Roberts then:
Orioles get Pie.
Cubs get Peavy.
Padres get Vitters-Olson-Samardzija-Thomas/Cedeno
I realize that both offers have the Cubs dealing the same players to the Pads but, I heard an argument that the Orioles don't get enough return for Roberts in my earlier proposal. The Cubs dealing 2 legit prospects and an extra piece for Peavy is solid. The Pads get that and also Olson. We get an easy gimme deal for Olson for Pie straightup. It doesn't make organizational sense when you factor in Scott and Reimold, but, like you said earlier, Olson-for-Pie is a no-brainer. Pie has the upside of being a Carlos Beltran-like player in left. At worst he plays perhaps above-average D with CF-like range, decent power, and AVG but lots of bags in LF.
As far as Daniel, I am going to go out on a limb and predict that we'll see him pitch up and down all season for about 200 IP. He strikes me as a pitcher who may never flourish until he is surrounded by other pitchers capable of carrying the load higher in the order.
D-Cab has worn us all down , way down , but he does eat up innings and he's the kind of pitcher Peter the Great likes , cheap............
In his last ten starts of 2008 Daniel pitched 51 innings. That is far from being an innings eater. People are remembering the Daniel of the past when he threw in the mid to upper 90s and went 7 innings a game. Those numbers did not occur in the second half of last season. If he was hurt I could understand the numbers but all sources deny any injury.
Roch -
If we haven't found any viable pitching options by 12/12, then bring back D-Cab on the proverbial short leash.
I like the idea of dealing Olson to the Cubs for Pie. As another poster already mentioned, could you imagine trying to hit the gaps in that outfield? Of course with our pitching, it's the bleachers that end up getting hit. But what I think some are missing on making this deal, is that you add more depth to the team, allowing you the flexibility to make trades. For instance, maybe you send a pitching prospect and Scott to another team for a SS prospect. That in it's self might not net us Alcides from the Brewers, but it's a start!
Rusty=====D-Cab is in fact an inning eater , if they choose to use him that way , he may not be a quality pitcher but he will go out and pitch for you on the cheap , just what Peter the Great likes........remember now , Peter the Great will not pay top dollar for a quality pitcher to pitch every five days.........his words , not mine.........the great fans of Baltimore deserve better , but Peter must be proud...........
As for the people thinking Cabrera will be "cheap," they are wrong.
Daniel is supposedly going to "earn" around $3-5 million in arbitration. Probably fairly inexpensive as to what you'd have to pay to replace 180-200 innings in the rotation if you went via the free agent market. But, subtracting him from the rotation and that money allows you to explore other options, such as trades or a Japanese import the Orioles are seriously considering (Uehara and Kawakami). Depending on what the contracts look like for these guys, I'd rather take a chance on them (they both have outstanding control) than another year of the same-old same-old with Cabrera.
When everybody was clamoring over him when he made about four or five good starts to begin the year, almost everybody on the ESPN boards thought it was the year he does it. I wasn't convinced. We've seen it before from him. Almost unhittable at times, unable to get an out at others.
As for an injury, Adam Loewen said nothing about his arm bothering him until he started to walk a bunch of guys. Early on they found nothing serious to be wrong. Then they found a stress fracture that would require rest to heal. Then they discovered it was so bad it needed screws to hold it all together. So who knows what the story is with Cabrera. Was he hurting? Or just begging out?
The blame doesn't go all on Cabrera. They organization did him a disservice when they called him up. Straight out of AA he was handed a rotation slot simply because he could top 95MPH on the radar gun and the O's rotation was full of soft-tossers at the time. Ever since then it was the "potential" that kept him in the rotation when he clearly should have been at AA-AAA the whole time learning how to pitch. Liz reminds me of this situation so much. Keep Liz in the minors until he proves he can find the strike zone over an extended period of time, like a whole season.
Will Cabrera figure it all out? Maybe. The real question is, will that be any time in the Orioles/MacPhail's attempt to get this team back to a respectable level? I don't think so. Do you honestly think the Orioles will sign him when he becomes a free agent? If that answer is no, then why bother offering him arbitration?