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Izturis is the better option. Greene as a one year rental doesn't make much sense. I think a lot of people are getting impatient because the Orioles don't seem to be doing much. And so far they would be right.

In a sense, I'd rather have Greene. The fear with Izturis is they sign him for multiple years, and he's not that great. Stability is nice, but rather than lock in a below average player I'd rather have the flexibility to nab someone good. Why not Adam Everett on a cheap, one-year deal? If you are going to accept poor offense out of SS, might as well take a serious glove man. Everett is one of a very few guys that both scouts and statistics gurus agree is a phenomenal fielder, even if his offense makes you pine for Brandon Fahey.

My preference still, in one of those "dreaming blogger" senses (but hopefully more realistic), is to sign Teixeira, trade Huff for a top-notch SS prospect, sign Everett for the short term, trade Hernandez to the Mets for Heilman, and go ahead with an Olson for Pie deal. A Pie-Jones-Markakis/Mora-Everett-Roberts-Teixeira/Wieters defense would be outstanding, and get the most out of a makeshift rotation (Guthrie, Cabrera, Heilman, cheap free agent, somebody among Burres/Liz/Waters/Bergesen) until the top pitching prospects are ready to step in. Great defense produces the fastest turnarounds and helps develop young pitchers.

Not a big Greene fan. I like Izturis for about two or three years and draft a college shortstop at the top of the draft. I think there is a guy at USC that could be ready for the MLB after two years in the minors.

Izturis... please no. Why do I keep doing this to myself and rooting for the Os every year.

Wow Roch that's one long list of shortstops we have had...

It's not always Greener on the other side. Cesar Izturis does not cost anything (players/draft picks) for the same average. Use Olsen to get Pie.

I honestly would rather see the O's make a trade and shed some of the veteran presence for a younger, long-term solution at shortstop. There are a few teams out there (Cubs, Phillies, etc.) who have multiple needs that we can fill with some of our veterans in order to acquire a good, young shortstop.

I think I would rather have Izturis for one year than Greene for two. Greene has seemed to have lost confidence and Baltimore fans will not have the patience. Isturis is definitely the safer option, although my choice if I was paying the bills would be Furcal. There is no longterm solution to the problem in the minors so we may be asking this same question in the winter of 2010.

But today's big news was made by the Houston Astros who named Stubby Clapp hitting coach of Greeneville of the Appalachian League (Rookie.

K. Greene career EQA is .261, League EQA at SS was .255 in 2008. He is a fringe major leaguer so hardly a long term solution regardless of his contract status. Izturis is even worse with a career EQA of .223 so in a nut shell Blake Davis could produce at the same level as Izturis. So no great loss here with Greene and Izturis skill set can be easily found for league minimum pay.

Izturis is worth a 2-3 year deal. His best baseball is still ahead of him. He has a Gold glove & ROY to his credit, so the talent is there. I say 2 yrs 6.5 is about right....

Maybe it was dreaming, but was really hoping Garrett Olson and one of our other spare parts were bringing back Greene and Pie.

Greene would obviously be the better offensive option, even coming off the abysmal season he had last year... but he'll be expensive and we'll only have him for a year.

I'm okay with Izturis for now, but I would hope we're able to land a future option in the draft this year. Preferably a college SS. From USC. In the first round.

I agree, if Greene weren't so expensive and/or he had more time left on his contract then it might have been worth it. I know there will be a fair share of posters on here who might be a little upset that the O's didn't get him, but personally I would still rather have Izturis' glove backing up our pitching staff than Greene's potential bat.

I know we all need to just be patient, but it would be nice to see something (other than minimal minor league signings) get done! It's usually more fun to talk about the "What's next" than the "What if" scenarios...

Hey Roch -

I don't think we need to throw money at a stopgap type shortstop who will be past his prime by the time we contend. What happened to finding a young shortstop in a trade? Can't we get Kozma, Valaika, Donald or Alcides Escobar for Olson and maybe Huff/Sherrill?

Since the Padres dumped Greene's salary does this mean they aren't going to move Peavy? And if we got Cedeno would he be the everyday SS?

I ask this question again:

How is Izturis an improvement over Juan Castro?

Greene would be a waste of money and prospects. At his best he struggles to reach a .300 OBP and he is no longer even an average defensive shortstop. Why give up any prospects at all, plus $6.5 mil for that? Izturis will struggle to put up a .300 OBP, but hes a top 5 defensive SS, and can probably be had for a couple million and no players.

I'd prefer Furcal but the problem is with his back, and then you have Renteria going to the Giants, possibly. That leaves Greene and Izturis. I prefer Izturis. I see some people saying they don't want Izturis.

My question is... why?

And, Sheets' proposal is a good one. I agree with him in that "dreaming blogger" sense. But unfortunately, for the fans, we can't have these dreams turn into realities. It's been that way for the past 11 seasons. I thought we had it on track for the 2005 season. Remember that season? First place, all the way to the end of the first half. What a distant memory.

I really hope the Orioles make noise at the Winter Meetings and get some deals happening or at least be close to getting the deals done.

Now that Greene is headed to St. Louis, here's what Andy MacPhail should do now:

-Sign Cesar Izturis to a 2 or 3 year deal.
-Sign Koji Uehara to a 2 or 3 year deal.
-Trade Daniel Cabrera for some McNuggets.
-Trade Ramon Hernadez for some C-plus prospects.
-Sign AJ Burnett only if he wants less than 5 years.

I hope macphail doesnt trade garrett olson for pie. the o's are really deep at LF with scott, montanez and reimold. also, we need all the young arms we can get. why would we trade something we need for something we dont need?

Roch, I know some will be displeased here but the O’s are better off going after Izturis and not sweating losing Greene. Izturis is a realistic option for the short term as long as the O’s don’t overcommit.

XD: I hadn’t seen the particulars on the Pedroia deal when I wrote my comment and instead was just using an average per year on the deal. Howard actually got $900,000 in his third year and last season won $10 million in arbitration for his fourth season. Like Pedroia, he had a Rookie of the Year and MVP on his resume, not to mention some gaudy HR and RBI totals which undoubtedly earned him that money. Now, Markakis won’t ask for as much—taking a guess, I’d say around $3 million is a decent number.

The Alex Rios deal (7 years, about $77 million if throwing in the option year) occurred with Rios entering his fifth year. Perhaps it’s reasonable to expect some middle ground between Pedroia and Rios for Markakis—maybe $9 million per year?

Personally, I don’t think the O’s should split hairs here. Sign him long term and pay him slightly more than what some perceived middle ground may be. If the thing gets stalled because of a million or two, what’s the point for the O’s other than to say they followed some sort of guideline? Right now, they can’t sign a player of Markakis’s caliber on the free agent market, and other than Wieters, who knows when they’ll develop another one. If they pay him on average $10 million a year the next 7 years, it’ll be a steal not to mention a huge step toward building a winner.

Izturis is by far the best option remaining to us. He can't hit, but he does steal bases, and is supposedly to be exceptional defensively. Jason Bartlett 2.0
I would have liked for us to take a flier on greene, because I think the only way to go from awful to good in short order is by taking chances on players who had weak years last year. Greene, and Vazquez are perfect examples (so was Swisher, but we don't want him with Scott and Aubrey). I think this is a good move for the Cardinals, and I think vazquez was a great move for the Braves. We should have made more of a push for Vazquez, we'll be lucky if we're not stuck with Byrd or Garland for longer than two years, and Vazquez is the far superior talent.
What about Oscar Salazar? He looked like a good hitter, and a fairly versatile guy, he seems like a good option at first... Salazar/Huff/Scott/Montanez for first, dh and left is not the end of the world, if we don't sign Texiera, our best option seems to be leaving those guys alone.

Izturis. What about drafting then a college SS who can be up as fast as Wieters? Pitching should be solid over the next years (beyond 2009 ...). And get Heilman from the Mets. He wants to start and let him do so. We have about 45 relievers that might be appealing to the Mets. Or maybe one of those SSs???

Chris--You are thinking of Grant Green from USC, who is the top middle infield prospect in the draft. You are right, he would be an awesome pick but the Padres draft two spots ahead of us and they just traded their starting SS. Tough to imagine them letting a stud hometown SS get past them.

Greene is a much better Shortstop and why not sign him long term before the trade. In 07 he had 27 homeruns and hit much better away from San Diego. Camden Yards would be great for him. Last year was an off year but he had a broken hand and that is hard to come back from in the same year. His defense isn't all that bad either.

Not even close. Izurtis by a long shot because he only costs money. And he's not a one-year rental. Both are stopgaps, one just doesn't having us looking for another stopgap in 2010. Either way, we still need to find and groom that Long-term SS option.

Great article on Tex... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/lee_jenkins/12/03/teixeira.boras/index.html

O's really really need to sign him. Ante up Angelos!

Team player...solid defense, decent bat, I'll take Jack Wilson over them all.

Roch,

I prefer Greene, but anybody is better than the shortstop that is on the Orioles depth chart as of now:

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/team/depth_chart/index.jsp?c_id=bal

I thought Greene would be a great SS and #9 hitter for the O's. He would have done well in Camden Yards. Could have traded him mid-season or tried to resign him. Either way he is a young guy with a great glove. And getting him out of the pitchers paradise would only help him.

Here are Greene's Career Road numbers: .270/.318/.484/.802

Pretty solid. I don't see Ceasar doing any better then Castro.

Izturis defensively would be ok - i read somewhere about the birds having interest in Jack Wilson. I just think the O's need some stability there - we had it with Cal forever - and then Bordick - and not really again until Tejada. Izturis has bounced around a few times, and I think that if the birds first major player landed via either trade or free agency is Izturis, I think its going to disappoint a lot of people...

Izturis is the better option, at a reasonable price, as there is a place for him on the end of the bench for a contending team. Sign him for 2 or 3 years, play him at SS in 2009, and continue to look for (or develop) a quality alternative at SS. Worst-case scenario, we have Izturis on our bench in 2010 (and maybe 2011) instead of a Fahey-type to pinch run, back-up SS and 2B, and to serve as 5th or 6th OF.

Orioles would be wise to gauge their chances of getting Teixeira at this stage. Because if they don't get him and sign-up another weak-hitting shortstop in Izturis then they'd likely struggle offensively througout the season. It'd be a better idea to pursue Furcal - if he is deemed to be physically fit - under that circumstance.

Orioles, the last couple of years, have not fared well against left handed pitching and Furcal could help alleviate that problem, to a certain extent, with his base stealing ability.

Roch-- Are we still looking at potentially trading Ramon to the Reds?
They seem like a great match for us, as they have lots of starting pitching options, and I've read they're also looking for a veteran lefty for the bullpen. If we ate a little salary, maybe we could find a new home for Ramon and Walker, and maybe get a starter back in return, either Arroyo or Harang if they want to cut salary, or a young pitcher like Bailey (who's out of favor there) or Ramon Ramirez or Matthew Maloney if they want to move a younger pitcher. They're obviously hanging onto Volquez and Cueto, but they've got a lot of starters all of a sudden.
Definitely seems like we could work something out with them.

Best news I've heard all week for the O's. We should be going after Hardy/Izturis/Wilson and stocking the minors. I don't know about Cedeno as part of a SD/CHI/BAL Peavy trade either.

I definitely feel Greene is a better player than Izturis, but not at one year. There is nothing special about Izturis, your just getting more of the same. I am a real fan of idea of signing J Garland and 2 other pitchers. I don't want to see D. Cabrera again next year, that is the only thing I have grown tired of. I don't really care about Tex and SS. Thoes things to me are just extra - Awesome if they happen, but I won't be crushed if they don't.

Satyr3206:
The O's have done a ton since Mr. MacPhail has been here and they will continue. The Winter meetings have not even started yet, no one has made a move yet. They will get a lot done this winter, I still have faith, but then I always will.

Sheets:
I really hope that Cabrera is not in the rotation next year.

Depends, if he has a good season then we may have ourselves something and someone who may want to resign here for more years. On a rebuilding team i think you always gotta look ceiling and age over well.....Izturus- although the safer and cheaper option.

Roch, Assuming we got Khalil Greene. If Greene does have a good season, we offer him arbritation and he leaves, wouldnt we get a compensatory pick?

i would have liked greene for a year for maybe a little less then olson say maybe even penn. Olson may have an upside he has lost his control in transition to a little ball but hes way to young to be given up on. Iztrus is are best option outside of orlando i feel a 250 hitter is an upgarde to a holeless lineup.

Izturis would be fine. He is a great defensive SS and an excellent bunter and base runner. The offense can carry a weak stick and his play at short would certainly help the pitching staff.

Izturis would be fine. He is a great defensive SS and an excellent bunter and base runner. The offense can carry a weak stick and his play at short would certainly help the pitching staff.

jack wilson is our best SS choice. significantly better hitter. fielding stats not much different. Can be had in trade for not too much. AND WE CAN AFFORD HIS SALARY.

Tangent If tex does not sign here how can he even come home?
If hes a lifer like he has led on to be it should be a lock. To play a game you love in front of your family and your city 82 nights/days a year for silly money. Come on man, if we come close to matching what he signs for and he does not come here don't be sad cause we don't need him. If he signs with a al east team he should be showered with cal and surhoff bobbleheads every series he comes so called home. With him and wieters were a whole new club 65-70 more bombs, 175-225 ribis and both of them take walks so just keep feeding aubrey pitchs to hit. Bottm line if he doesn't come HOME hes worst than damon/ Roch i beleive o's magic and he can bring it back.

"A friend of mine texted me last night that he'd rather have Izturis for two seasons than Greene for one at the same price."

That's fine as long as Izturis only has one season's worth of plate appearances!

From what I read on mlbtraderumors.com the O's asked the Cubs for Cedeno and Pie for Olson. Bad thing about that is I think Cedeno is out of options... I think they are going to revisit this during the meetings next week.

Tejada might be available in a trade. Straight up for Luke Scott? :-)

I'd rather have Greene for one season and see how he does. If izturis is a flop in 2009, then we can go fishing again and not have to pay for it.
This is my bright idea. We go after Bedard then trade him straight up for Derek Jeter. It's only an idea.

Greene to St. Louis....what about Felipe Lopez then? He did finish 08 very strong and i know we can afford him.

ofahn said:
I ask this question again:

How is Izturis an improvement over Juan Castro?

Izturis = 29 years old
Castro = 36 years old

I, for one, was delighted to hear of Greene being traded to the Cards precisely because the Orioles can focus more on Izturis, who I think is preferable to Greene.

No one seems to mind the team that had Izturis is letting him go to sign Greene and is willing to pay twice the amount to do so?

So they dont see much downside with Greene's glove and figure they are getting offense. The O's really cant afford less offense, no guarantees that Huff and Mora repeat and that Brian is going to be here or that Scott and Jones really do much better.

Still for 2009 I wont cry but no way am I giving Izturis more then one year. Heck, if we trade Brian we might need Izturis and Lopez and quite frankly I dont see why we cant sign both even if Brian stays.