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Roch Kubatko
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Roch Kubatko Orioles
The Nationals may have taken the lead!
According to multiple sources, the Washington Nationals have sweetened their proposal to first baseman Mark Teixeira, offering him an eight-year deal worth $178 to $184 million.
The Nats were believed to have an eight-year, $160 million offer on the table. They apparently have increased the total value, putting them ahead of the other contenders, based on the numbers that have been reported.
I'm also told that they're willing to go nine years - and there's been talk of 10 - which could be one reason why agent Scott Boras is dragging along negotiations. He's also trying to get the Red Sox back in the game and see if the Yankees and Orioles will react.
So just how flexible is that Orioles offer?
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Categories (click for archive)Roch Kubatko | Roch Kubatko Orioles |
Let him go to DC for that kinda money.
Lets hope the Orioles are like all of our dream wives....and can put their legs behind their head. Roch, what did ya think of my Tex poem 3 posts ago? lol
If this is true, then the Orioles would have to raise their offer like a very flexible gymnast. Go at least 8/190, even maybe 195.
Lets hope it's a little more flexible than I am.
We need to up our offer. I hope AM does that.
Can you say "Dunn"? As in Adam...
The nationals are garbage, sorry but its true, why would tex to to washington and stay in hell for 8 years, their minor leauge system is garbage, who is on there team to protect him in the lineup???, young that is like 500lbs or aaron boone or ryan zimmerman that is over rated, and if you think the Os pitching is suspect, look at the nationals
I'm with other Steve.
If it is legit, then match it....surely Tex would choose the O's over the Nats.
This is A-Rod all over again. He would be miserable in DC and DC would be pleading with MLB to rid them of his contract w/in the first few years. It's a financial disaster waiting to happen for both parties.
From what I have read the Sox will not exceed any contract in their history. That means no higher than eight years and $20 mil per year. The Orioles now need to go to eight years $184 and see what Tex/Boras next move is.
I don't wanna see Mark Teixeira high;ights in a Nats uniform on MASN every night. I hope Peter Angelos doesn't either.
Now get off your tuchuses Andy MacPhail and Peter Angelos and get this freakin deal done !!!!
Roch,
Do you know what the split is on that MASN $$? Isn't it around 90% O's AND 10% Nationals?
I thought that was the big revenue stream for the O's to get the ship straight...
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Don't know exact figure but that sounds right - or pretty darn close to it. - Roch
DC is better than NY or Boston.
I want this to be over ASAP. I can't handle it On my way home from work, the Homeplate Update on XM said that the Orioles had become the front runners (this was around 3:30). I was so excited to get home and catch up on the news... and there wasn't any, really. This is torture.
That's a lotta cheese. I would love to have him but I also know that teams that have more than 20% of payroll tied to one player never win.
Let 'em go to Washington. I mean it. With the Lerners tossing that kind of money around in a bad economy, they'll be losers for even more years than they would be otherwise. We can invest more prudently and build a winner here. And who the heck ever said MT yearns to play for a franchise that couldn't get Cal or Brooks or Frank to defend its record if their lives depended on it? It's a bidness folks, and it has the same level of sentimentality as any other business -- none.
I'm with the Steves. For that money let Teix be the face of the Nat's. We'll use the extra cash to lock up Wieters, who will probably put up the same kind of numbers in 2-3 years - at a more important position on the field.
I am a huge Angels fan, and since it seems highly unlikely that the Angels will land Teixera, I would really love him to go to Baltimore or Washington (really anywhere but Boston, where he will likely end up). Nothing personal to the Nats, but I also would be pretty happy if he went to a team with no chance of winning, especially if he is only about the money.
Nick, take your head out of your sphincter and do a little research. The Nats' farm system is ranked well ahead if the Orioles. The Nats had better starting pitching last year than the Orioles. The Orioles need starting pitching! MacPhail needs to take that money they'd have given Tex and spread it around to some legitimate starters, not some near-7 ERA guy like Garret Olson. Get some REAL big league starting pitchers! Jeremy Guthrie wouldn't be more than anyone else's 3rd of 4th starter - here he's number 1. The Orioles have offense, they need starting pitching! Not a $20 million first baseman who everyone seems to think is dying to play in Baltimore. He was as a teenager, but he's a grown-up now.
Yea, that money is ridiculous for one guy. Spend that 150 million on 5-8 other players that will help us win, not just one guy. Use it to give BROB whatever he wants to stay for a few more years and extend Markakis.
Roch,
Congrats on the scoop! Keep up the great work.
The Nats have way bigger issues that cannot be solved by signing a single superstar (Tex). They should be investing in scouting & player development, and sign several middle-tier free agents. Tex won't put fannies in the seats, even if it means 5 more wins per season..
Roch-- This may be very good news-- the last of the interested teams giving their final offer. O's have indicated flexibility. AM, we trust you to step up to the plate and bring Tex home. No single move could have more of an impact in making Andy MacPhail & Peter Angelos heroes in Baltimore, and begin the process of bringing the crowds back.
For the first time in a long time, the city is buzzing about baseball in December....
Go get 'em guys!
I wanna c andy macphail n peter angelos talk with scott boras and Tex abiout increasing the os offer 2 at least $185-190n i deffinately dont wanna c Tex in a Boston or washington uniform in 2009! Im hoping that Tex will give me n The a grandhomecoming christmas n come to play 4 his hometown team in 2009!
Gee Whiz fellas. Does everyone have to hate on the Nats? This wouold be a great move for MASN. Angleos benefits more than anyone if Teixeira signs with the Nats. The net gain from improved network ratings and advertising dollars would be of greater benefit to Angelos than signing Tex for his own team. No cost from his own wallet, but all the benefit of a star player for his network.
Seems like the Nats owner actually cares about starting to build a team through the draft and through free agent signings like the Red Sox have been doing.
We'll see who "rebuilds" quicker if they sign Texeira and keep building their farm system...them? Or us, with major free agent signings like Izuturis and monster trades like Freel while building our farm system and constantly "rebuilding."
Neither team is winning next year, but how many years after next year is the question. If the Nats sign Tex, they move quicker because their rich owner cares about his sports legacy more than ours. It's that simple. Don't try to complicate it by giving Angelos credit where it isn't due.
For the posters who think we should be focusing on pitching...I know our farm system is rich in hitters and all (it's not..it's bare bones...we are loaded on pitching prospects).
We should just go out and sign a bunch of #4 pitchers...because that's all that's left minus Ben Sheets and I'm all for giving him a chance. O's don't take chances on pitchers though.
So stop begging for us to use that Tex money on pitchers...that train left with Sabathia and Burnett. Unless you want to give Randy Wolfe, Brandon Looper and Tim Redding $190 million in contracts. Makes a great deal of sense there.
We aren't breaking the bank on Tex, we've got enough to sign him and go after top notch FA pitchers. You can't have the largest payroll in baseball and be profitable 12 years ago..turn around and for years have a lower payroll than 12 years previous and complain how you can't sign top talent at today's prices. Another idiotic argument.
We are interested in going out and signing some "cheap innings eaters" (amazingly productive feat there). Why did we give up Cabrera, an amazing 5.00 ERA "innings eater", so we can go sign a bunch of early to mid 30s pitchers with the same ERA he'll have for more money than he would've commanded in arbitration?
If the Nats sign Tex go ahead and come up with some "they overpaid" or "Tex is Greedy" logic, but at the end of the day...the Nats will have cared about building a winning culture more than us. It's a one piece at a time process and they will have acquired a major while we sign nothing of significance and hope our players want to stick around on a perennial loser while us fans pay Major League prices for a Frederick Keys level team.
Anyone feel like they are being constantly hustled?
But maybe the O's FO knows they have a level of backlash on their hands that even they know they can't handle this time and will do what it takes to sign Tex. We know he's not ARod or Cal, or the best player in baseball, but this is a symbolic move. It's time to see whether Angelos has the juevos to make an actual move the fans will care aboutl
Seriously, Do you Orioles fans really think Mark Teixeira is your savior? Yu would still be 4th best team in the East, Behind Boston, New York, and the Rays. Can you say Albert Belle redux!
Roch,
When you say that the Nats and O's have to vastly overpay for Teixeira, how much do you think exactly? Isn't this offer close to the Red Sox bid? I'd have to think that if these two offers are close then the Sox would win, right? Will this get done before Christmas?
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I never wrote that the Orioles had to vastly overpay for Tex, but I know that's been written by others. I would think if the Red Sox are real close to DC's offer, Teixeira takes it so he can play for a contender. But DC might not be done sweetening the deal. I really, really hope it gets done before Christmas, but I honestly don't know. I can't imagine anyone scheduling a physical and a press conference on Christmas, so we're running out of time this week. - Roch
Does it really matter when Jeremy Guthrie is your ace? Teixiera will add 3 wins to your team. Lets be realistic
Either way Angelos comes out a winner. If Tex signs w/DC, MASN would see a significant bump in advertising revenues, especially when it would come to businesses wanting Tex to endorse a product or service. There's no legitimate business reason for Angelos to top the high bidder for Texeira's services when that high bidder is the Nationals.
Roch, It seems to me that Boras is going to one team per day with the news getting leaked that night or the next day. Sox on Thursday, Yanks on Friday, etc. Could it be the Os turn tonight or tomorrow?
If I'm a competitor, I couldn't imagine playing for the Wash. Nationals for 8 weeks, let alone 8 or more YEARS. The notion of playing for a team that will be out of the race most years by Memorial Day, with over 4 months of baseball remaining to be played...... well, good luck with THAT.
If Tex wants to sign a contract that will pretty much guarantee that he'll never see a meaningful playoff game in his baseball career,let alone a World Series, then have at it Tex.
Roch, with all of the other needs the orioles have do you think that all that money for Tex. will be worth it? Also with the nationals being worse than the orioles,what is your opinion on the kind of money they are willing to give Tex?
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I think the money all of these superstars are making is ridiculous, but you have to set aside logic when debating whether the Orioles are "low-balling" somebody while offering at least $20 million a year for seven years, plus all the marketing opportunities. I wish somebody would insult me like that. I think Tex is more valuable to the Orioles because of the hometown angle, which I still don't think plays as well in DC. - Roch
GHR-
I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think the Nats farm system is anywhere near the O's, especially when it comes to upper-tier talent. And their starting pitching is just as abysmal as the Orioles, they simply play in the far easier league.
For goodness sakes just give him $200 million and 10 years! C'mon McFail, if you don't do it now fans will never go back to the yard!
Just because the Nats may have upped their offer doesn't necessarily mean they have "taken the lead" in the negotiations at all.
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Which is why I'm saying "may have." And I'm referring more to the dollar amount. - Roch
boras is a scumbag! i'll pass on the $12 beer and the $9 hot dog
The Nats are the most meaningless franchise in the mlb. They need upgrades at 7 offensive spots and a full starting rotation. Teix will make you a 65 game winner. Calm down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We're keeping the light on for you at Nats Park, Tex.
Call Bor@ss on this bs, drop out. I'll take two very good players for the $$ Tex seems to want & need. NO player is worth that much for that long...
The Nats are the most meaningless franchise in the mlb. They need upgrades at 7 offensive spots and a full starting rotation. Teix will make you a 65 game winner. Calm down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the Orioles offer that kind of money to one player, it only reminds me of another time they did the same thing and it put a drag on the franchise that I still believe we are feeling the effects of...can anyone say "Albert Bell"?
One comment on the Cabrera to the Nats thing... I bet he does better there. I also bet he hits far fewer batters & suddenly has better control in that respect, you see, he now will have to bat 2 or 3 times a game. To watch that futility might be amusing too.
He should have gone to the Dodgers. He needs a BIG park for the fly balls he gives up. They are HRs here, cans of corn in LA.
Roch,
A serious question as I have long admired your work:
Now that you work for MASN, are you assigned to report on the Orioles, both the Orioles and the Nats, or MLB in general? And as a follow up, is the fact that MASN on-air and web coverage is heavily slanted towards the Orioles over the Nats a matter of the Nats not buying time/programming, or some other factor?
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MASN wanted me to bring my blog at The Sun to their Web site. It's always been heavy on Orioles, but I am free to write whatever I want. It just seems like the Orioles draw the most interest. I go to some Ravens home games, but Dan Kolko is all over that beat. I know MASN is trying to do more with the Nats (hence Phil Wood's presence on the Hot Stove Show). I don't know all the inner-workings because, honestly, I don't need to. Just taking care of my little area here. And if they want me to talk about the Nats on the air, I'll happily do it. - Roch
Roch,
According to Jon Heyman, this is probably going to be done before Thursday. He still believes that the Red Sox are the favorites.
Tex will not sign with the Nats.
The O's will up their offer to match the Nats, and leave Boras/Tex an obvious choice, e.g., O's a MUCH better fit than the Nats.
Gotta believe.
Cabrera: he's got a great arm, but not the athletic ability to consistently repeat his delivery, either full motion or stretch. thus, he remains terribly inconsistent, and now someone else's enigma.
Here's to hoping the O's offer isn't THAT flexible... At a certain point this all gets rather repulsive. Are we at that point yet? I wonder...
10 years is a long time (even for a seemingly healthy player like Tex). If he doesnt end up in Baltimore, then I have complete faith in McPhail that he has a plan B for 1b and for the rebuild in general.
I don't buy it!
I've been driving the sign Tex train but you pay the best players in the sport 10 yr deals. Ovechkin,Manning,Kobe. But 10 yrs for a 28 yr old Teixeira? That's lunacy. Offer him 8yrs 185 and if he wants to go to DC let him.
To whom it may concern...Baseball Prospectus from March 2008 has the Os as the 10th best minor league system and the Nats at 14th. I can't imagine the Nats passed the Os by not signing their first round pick this year...
No way. Why would they reveal that they were "willing to go 9 or even 10 years"? A negotator would never reveal that kind of infomration and that is why I believe this story is bull!
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Nobody said the Lerners are stating this publicly or have told Boras, "Hey, if this offer doesn't work, we'll go higher." - Roch
Roch, I would hate to see Tex go to the Nats, But if he does it only proves that it was all about the money. If he went to the Sox, Yanks, or Angels, he did it for a better chance of winning. {and the money}. It's hard to believe that he thinks the Nats have a better chance of winning that the O's. But I guess thats what Boras is all about. It's time for the O's to move on.
I really hate the direction of this signing. First of all, I believe that Boras really doesn't want Tex to go to the Nationals. They are simply there as a team to drive up the price to make Boston match it. The Orioles are mere bystanders. If they weren't, we would be hearing more. And WORSE, the Nationals would do much better for their organization if they realized this, and poured more money into multiple players, which they should be able to do in this weak market. And all the while, they are being used as pawns in Boras's game. What a shame. Baseball needs a salary cap like the NFL. We are seeing the money game at its worst!
SIGN MARK.
PERIOD.
NUFF SAID.
YOU'LL COMPETE IN 3 YEARS.
Steve said:
Let him go to DC for that kinda money.
December 22, 2008 8:04 PM
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Steve:
I don't beleive it is your checkbook.
Really - does the final number make any difference to you?
Your owner can out-pay everybody, if he wants to.
He DOES have the money (unless he lost a boatload in that big PONZI scheme)
So in reality you are cheering that your owner KEEP THE DOLLARS IN HIS PERSONAL CHECKBOOK !!!
You drank ownerships' Kool-Aid !!!
A real fan would want a "face" of the Franchise...
...didn't you have some guy named RIPKEN before ???
Push your owner to get him - don't complain about Boras' or the Yankees, or the RS, or whoever !!!
It all lies on your owners desk....the dollars will go to the ballclub or to his new yacht !!!
Ownership is your focus, Steve...ownership's your issue !!!
Let the Nats have him.
Remember when we signed Miggy? He was an all-star and an ex-MVP (which Tex is not). Did he lead the O's anywhere?
Plus, will the Nats have any money left?
The answer to both is no. The O's do not have unlimited funds anymore. Attendance is way down and ad revenues are sure to be too, given the current circumstances.
He would have been nice to have but they need pitching more.
GHR may wanna update his research, or his Baseball America subscription...
I give Kudos to Roch for sort of mocking people on this site. Teixeira is a good player, but he's not the messiah. Five more wins isn't that big of a deal. We are not one or two players away from winning. It makes no sense. People on this site need to get a life. The same idiots on this site that say they will never go to another Orioles game if Teixeira isn't signed are the same ones that will show up when they start winning again and act like they've stuck with them all along. These are the same people that complained when the Maryland Terps lost in the Sweet Sixteen every year, jumped on the bandwagon when they won the title, and now the Terps can't even make the NCAA tournament! Most of the people on this site obviously know nothing about baseball. Thanks Mark, but no thanks. We're still rebuilding and we'll be better for it in the long run.
"Nobody said the Lerners are stating this publicly or have told Boras, "Hey, if this offer doesn't work, we'll go higher.""
Roch-
You are implying that your so called source has reliable information such that he heard first hand from the Learners that they were willing to go 9 or even 10. There is no way the Learners would leak that kind of info! Sorry, but that statement is what destroys the credibility of this story.
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Whatever dude. Believe or don't believe what you want. Hopefully one of these days, all the offers will be made public. We'll see. - Roch
Melvis, if Teixeira goes to DC, I will eat my keyboard and mouse pad.
...and maybe this lamp.
Roch-
... and by the way, was that Scott Boras's nephew who gave you the information? Scott Boras makes a living out of taking local writers such as your self.
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We're not done yet? No, wasn't him. - Roch
Roch-
I will give credit though ... you are indeed a good sport.
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It comes and goes. And if the Bears don't cover tonight, the "good sport" thing goes right out the window. - Roch
If Teixeira picks the Nationals, it will be entirely for the money. It will tell you all you need to know about both him and Scott Boras.
As a season ticket holder, I say let the Nats have him at that price. I can't take an increase in prices.
1) I keep reading about the comparison to Albert Belle. How the heck can these 2 be compared? I lived in Cleveland during the Indian's great years in the 90's and every time that man came to bat a hush fell over the entire city. That guy was a monster in CLE and CHI. But we bought him near the end of his career... and were surprised to see all the wear & tear that ended his career here. Talk about a half-assed move by PA!!! That'd be like signing Greg Maddux now and expecting him to pitch like he did for Atlanta!
Tex is a healthy, big, first basemen in his prime, not past it! He's proven and he'd make any starting rotation better just for being in the lineup.
2) The Orioles will up their offer. Everybody relax. AM is not panicking and will not be used by Boar'sASS. He will make his offer at the right time and Tex can take it or leave it.
3) Tex's value to the Orioles extends far beyond his .330 ob% or 35 homers per year. He won't duplicate Miggy's numbers in '05! That's not why this is important. Baltimore has coveted this guy since his first year in Texas. Remember all the Viviano interviews with him over the last few years???
His salary will pay for itself in ticket & jersey sales, MASN money, and national exposure. He brings free agents here who wouldn't otherwise think about Baltimore.
4) The only thing I am truly worried about is if we don't get Tex, PA sits on this $150M without doing anything else significant. A lot of people are writing here that PA is better to buy a rotation and lock up Markakis and Brob rather than spend big on 1 player.
Really? I think if PA loses Tex, he trades Brob, Nick decides to get out of here, and we buy 4 Daniel Cabrera's to "eat innings" till 2011.
PA won't go after Pujols or anyone else in the future, nor will Baltimore want a player as badly as we want Tex. (Getting Pujols past his prime, BTW. Why don't we go after Manny now?)
So, if we don't get this all important building block, I don't see a good competitive team here till 2014 or 2015... after the young starters have a couple of big league years under their belts. That scares me.
Bleeding black & orange
The Nats are being used to raise the price.
I doubt Tex will sign there.
And I know AM won't play Boras' game.
Hahah you can't win Roch. You get a source or 2 and you report, they complain. You don't confirm someone elses source, they whine. I say you just start spamming smiley faces in your posts. It'll blow peoples minds
good by Tex - you'll go down as a money chasing loser like A-Rod.
I can actually see the logic in the Nats signing Teixeira. If they use the formula the Cubs used after the '06 season and follow the Tex signing by signing Orlando Hudson and Ben Sheets. The payroll for their current roster is about $45 million. Adding those guys to the players they got from the Marlins could make them an almost .500 team with a payroll less than $90 million. It would give the team some buzz, fill some seats, and some folks to watch on TV.
To the guy who thinks the Nats have a better farm system than the O's, Matt Wieters, right now, is better than anyone on your roster.
so boras and his wife are your "multiple sources", right?
This mass delusion that somehow the Nats money is not good enough for Teixeira or that he is somehow duty bound to sign with the Orioles or morally bound to sign with the Red Sox/Yankees is just pure nonsense. And this silly lunancy that the Nats are not good enough for Teixeira but the Orioles are is a stunning denial of facts. The Nats are in their 4th yrar of existance while the Orioles are in their tenth straight year of complete colapse. How is that more attractive to a free agent? The Nats are re-investing while the Orioles are divesting. The Nats are building a farm system while the Orioles are wasting one. Teixeira still probably signs with the Red Sox, but try to stay balanced people - the Orioles are still owned by Angelos - and he hasn't had a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Past. He's still counting his money and expecting Bob Cratchet to show up at work on time Christmas morning.
O's over Nats? There is no way Teixeira picks the O's over the Nats if he wants to win anytime soon. The O's are in a division that they will have very little chace to break out of in the next 5-15 years. The Nats are a lot closer to contention than the lousy blOws.
He won't be better than Stephen Strasburg, that's for sure.
Teixeira signing with the nationals makes the baby Jesus cry.
Hey Roch!! Love the blog!! Anyway, are there any indications that Peter Angelos is directly involved in the negotiations with Tex's agent Boras?? I haven't heard anything and was just wondering if Andy MacPhail really and truly does have free reign of the team. Thanks and keep up the GREAT work!!
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I've been told he isn't involved. Don't have any proof of it, but that's what I've heard. You're not the only one who wonders. - Roch
This Nationals thing is bothersome. Boras has been hangin around Boston and the Yankees trying to drive up the price for the Yankees and Boston? I have to believe Tex is prepared to come to the area unless blown away by the Red Sox or Yankees and now the Nats may have given him a good reason.
Another rumor has the O's inquiring into Aaron Miles, which in conjunction with Tex signing elsewhere could mean the O's may be preparing to loose Roberts.
It all may mean nothing, but then again...... Of course I was the bright one who thought Tex would sign by last Friday.
I believe I would continue to persue the Sheets thing if he would come down to about 11 or 12 a year. If he fails so what, hurt he is still better than 80% of the current rotation, but if he is resonably healthy (he has failed after the all-star break countless times) then the O's have a major trade chip or someone, if not traded and stays healthy, who has been in the org for a year and may like what he sees. The question is 'do you fill the rotation with 2 six million dollar pitchers who may not make it until the end of the year before getting released or do you take a chance and hope you strike gold? As far as I can tell only Milwaukee and Texas are in position to sign him.
i have been an orioles fan my whole life and i want tex to come here badly just like everyone else. but if he goes somewhere else for the money then so be it we will move on .as for all of you who are complaining about ticket prices and concessions going up because we sign tex you must not be in your right mind or just plain stupid. if we sign him many many more fans will come to see games, this is how they will truly make the money to pay his salary,extra ticket sales and extra concessions mean extra money to pay him. it will also show brob and nick that we are finally serious about rebuilding,we need to show them we are tired of losing and watching the attendance decline steadily year after year.oh yeah i forgot to add all of the extra merchandise sales money in there too,can you just image how many people would buy # 23 jerseys i can. i just hope something happens soon one way or the other im getting so tired of waiting !!!
My real question is:
Did you have to include the exclamation point in the title? It makes it seem like you're pumped about this turn of events. ;)
Steve said:
3) Tex's value to the Orioles extends far beyond his .330 ob% or 35 homers per year. He won't duplicate Miggy's numbers in '05!
What .330 OBP? Tex has a career .378 OBP and was over .400 last season. He has been over .370 OBP every year since his first season.
He has also been consistently better than Tejada's 2005 season, and he will be again for at least a few years.
He would be the Orioles' best hitter since Belle in 1999.
Amidst all the hysteria over Mark Teixeira, what's been lost is the Oriole tradition that pitching and defense win championships. Over the past few years and during this offseason, the Os have improved their defense at SS, CF, and RF, while maintaining very good defense at 2B. Last year, Millar's work around 1B was very good, and 2009 promises to see improved defense at C, if only because Ramon will be gone. So, at most positions on the field, the Os are quite good. However, the other part of the formula -- pitching, especially starting pitching -- has been pretty awful. I echo Steve's concern that if Angelos loses Teixeira, he'll be content to keep nearly all of the $150+ million in his pocket. It would be a real tragedy for the team to settle for several mediocre-at-best pitchers on the cheap. The Os failure to take chances with some of the talented arms available, even if they hold certain health risks, will be an even bigger blow to the immediate future of the team, because as promising as some of their minor league pitchers, they are only that -- promising. On the heels of what will probably be the failure to sign Teixeira, a failure to significantly improve the starting rotation will leave the team in an even deeper hole in their division than they currently are.
Hey Roch,
Congrats on the MLB.com pick-up. You may have a future in this work!
In a weird way I could handle losing him to Boston or New York, you expect too, but you can't lose him to Washington. Baltimore has more upside than Washington when you compare those two franchises. Angelos used to get upset and offer the world to anyone considering New York; he needs to use that tactic now. There are too many intangibles that come in to play here. Angelos screamed about the close proximity and how Washington will take revenue and attendance away but he has an opportunity to stop that; not to mention the fact that Markakis and Roberts may not have much desire staying longer than their existing time table. This is a must sign, especially if Washington is the other player in the negotiation.
Roch--Is that "lead" as in going to the front, or "lead" as in bullet to the head?
Mark will sign tomorrow at Connolly's Corner Sports Bar. Free steamed crabs for the first 66 (yes, honoring the first World Series Championship)customers.
Please free us from these twisted notions of Looper, Redding, and Hendrickson. My God, we can do much better than that.
Sign Jon Garland.
I'm with Dimitrios. I'm sure he is a very nice kid, the kind you'd like your daughter to bring home but enough already. Keep building your team the way the Twins have the past few years and stay away from high-reward, high-risk free agents like Tex.
Was Tex with the Rangers when ARod signed that uber-rediculous contract? A wise man once sang "Money can't buy ya' love". If he signs with the Nats they're still gonna lose 90 games a year. The fans and press will blame him because they can't afford to sign the talent necessary to help them compete and Boras will be working to get his client out of there to someone that can absorb his salary and damaged reputation (Boston or NY).
Nationals = Turd
"...Pete said:
To whom it may concern...Baseball Prospectus from March 2008 has the Os as the 10th best minor league system and the Nats at 14th. I can't imagine the Nats passed the Os by not signing their first round pick this year...
December 22, 2008 9:42 PM ..."
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Pete (or anyone else) :
Can't find this article on their website.
Can you copy a link to it ?
If not; can you copy & paste all the teams/systems rankings ???
THX !!!
MELVIS
Albert Belle comparisons? Seriously? Albert was a hot head who had a freak injury. Albert tried to run kids over, body checked Fernando Vina and got caught corking his bat. I don't remember Teixeira doing any of those things. So get off the Albert Belle crap. This is not the same situation.
The best comparison I can come up with is Chipper Jones. But Chipper has had some foot issues. But offensively Chipper has gotten it done every year. And if he played in the AL they could have stashed him at DH. So in the end I think Teixeira fits in the Chipper Jones mold of hitter. He is only getting better and their age 28 seasons look very close:
Chipper (156 Games) .311/ .404/ .566 36 HR 111 RBI 95 BB
Teixeira (157 Games) .308/ .410/ .552 33 HR 121 RBI 97 BB
Also please someone show me the other 29 teams where Guthrie is a number 3 or 4 starter. And if you are going to name NL teams you have to adjust his stats by 1/2 a run and .15 in WHIP since its an easier league. So lets see... he would be the 4th on TB and Toronto. They are the only teams with 3 starters that made 25 or more starts had better numbers then Guthrie. Guthrie is a top of the rotation starter. If the O's would have signed any other SP not named CC Guthrie would still be the #1 guy.
Have a merry Xmas Roch.
What's the latest on Mike Costanza? Is he still working on becoming a catcher?
Doesn' having Oscar Salazar on the team next season make a lot of sense? From what I saw of him last year, he is a hitter. He has a fearless presence at the plate and can hit in the clutch.
Steve,
I have to remark on your Albert Belle comments. You are right in that he did not turn out to be the player we thought we were getting, but to say PA made a dumb move in getting him towards the end of his career is hindsight. He was only 32 when he got here and looked the part for the first year here with .297 avg, 37 HRs and 117 RBIs and even 17 stolen bases. I never cared for what I thought was a questionable attitude, but it is hard to expect his hip injury could have been foretold. If he stayed healthy, he would likely have gone over 500 HRs while still here on the 5 year contract at 36 or 37, kinda Manny like. Again in hindsight he was on the downside, but who could have predicted that? Sometimes we are a little too hard on folks.
I think if we can get Tex, even at ten years your looking at a good investment. So what if he declines towards the end of the contract. He will go into the hall of fame as an oriole, and the money won't seem that poorly spent in ten years. The thing is, Tex hasn't had that Great year (or two) that all the great ones have at some point in their career, So getting him now is definitely worthwhile.
Pesky Nats. I hope your daughter is feeling better. I also hope Boras gets lumps of coal in his stocking.
Here is what I think, and I am curious to see if anyone else (including Roch) agrees with me.
I think Tex is going to sign with the Orioles.
I think Tex WANTS to play for the Orioles.
Here is the basis for my argument:
There are 5 teams that are in the running for Tex.
ANGELS - It is already known that Tex wants to play on the East Coast, plus now they have pulled themselves from bidding (kudos to them, these negotiations are becoming rediculous) - no good!
YANKEES - Their priority has been on pitching. If they were serious about getting Tex, they would have offered him something by now - no good!
That leaves three viable teams in the running - RED SOX, ORIOLES, and NATIONALS.
If Tex wanted to play for a "winning" (for lack of a better word) team, he would have signed with the Red Sox during the winter meetings and none of this fiasco would be happening - no good!
The Nationals OBVIOULSY want him, and are willing to fork up the dough to get him. So, if he wanted to get as much money as he could he would have already signed with the Nationals - no good! (the Red Sox can also qualify for this argument)
That leaves the Orioles.
I think Tex sees the opportunity he will get by signing with the Orioles - a young ball club with alot of talent, that might not win the world series in 2009, but in 2010 or 2011 will (hopefully) be a contender.
Not to mention the fact that he is from MD, and EVERYONE knows that, so he signs with the Orioles and he automatically becomes Baltimore's Golden Boy (maybe not up to Cal Ripken status, but he will be popular). (Also, because he is from MD, if he signs with the Red Sox he shoots to the TOP of Baltimore's s--t list)
I think the whole "Teixeira Derby" was created by Boras to see if he could get the Orioles to play the same game that every other team is playing so he can get as much money out of them as they can, and I think MacPhail knows this which is why they are not playing the game. He might even sign for the 7 yr $140 mill deal.
My disclaimer is - I am a DIE HARD Orioles fan, and all I want for Christmas is to see Tex come to Baltimore - so I want to know if someone else agrees with me, or if I am making this up because I am biased.
Does anyone have any input?
Thanks,
Johnny C
Hey Roch,
I think this is a ploy by Boras to drive up the bid from the O's
The only other pony that hasn't "bowed out" is the nationals, so Boras needs to try and "take away the sale" If you make a customer believe they are about to lose the item they want they will often panic and overpay.
You know, it seems to me that the Nats have always had the highest bid. Maybe they are a pawn, but the Sox could also be a pawn too. The only reason they have been the frontrunner is that they are a perennial contender (having a lot of money helps too). Sure, Ortiz is getting old, and their lineup is lighter without Manny (even though Sox fans wouldn't admit it), I don't think that they need him that badly (If they sign him and end up moving Lowell how does he feel for taking a discount with the Sox?). I think the Nats and O's both are the ones that need him. I don't think the Nats are quite as bad as people have been saying on here, but they need help. However I think Tex makes the O's offense scary good.
I think AM should just do his thing and continue to be patient, as much as it's driving the rest of us crazy. His patience got us a pretty sweet deal for Bedard last year. I have to say that McPhail has done a good job, and whatever he decides to do with negotiations will ultimately be good for the O's.
It's a tough spot for Tex to be in; if he goes to the Sox, he doesn't care about his hometown. If he goes to the Nats, it's all about the money. To the rest of the country, I'd bet it still looks like it's all about the money if he signs with the O's too. No matter what he does, someone will have something to say about his decision. Oh to be one of the best and make a ton for it.
As always, great job Roch; what you do is appreciated even though it may not always seem like it.
Nearly 24 hrs since I "spent a day in Mr. MacPhail's office". Surprisingly, considering the daily tsunami-like ebb and flow in these negotiations, I still like my suggestion that Mr. MacPhail and Mr. Boras figure out a way to put both Teixeira and Lowe in Orioles' uniforms.
$200 million guaranteed money divided so that all parties come out looking good. Since you indicate Mr. Boras likes to steer conversations toward his other clients we might want to engage. If Washington is the best offer out there, we do not need to top them. That truly looks like an ARod/Texas situation. We do however want to keep him from the RedSox or Yanks.
Again, how does a combo deal make everyone look good? Boras is in a tough place with the "winning teams" Boston and LAA playing hardball. The Orioles, seen by the national media as not worthy of being in this chase are still in it, but seemingly not willing to overpay.
While Lowe apparently wants to return to Boston, Henry is sour on Boras so now is the time to get creative.
Since we don't want Sheets medical history, it leaves Lowe as the only bonifide FA that might be plugged in as a true #2 behind Guthrie (ALTHOUGH THAT'S STILL A WEAK 1-2). Having that #2 might encourage Teixeira that we're ready to make a move. While Lowe (or Boras) have been talking pipe dream numbers for a mid 30's pitcher, one must admit he has always taken the ball and thrown his innings. With the recent signing of gold glove Izturis to compliment Roberts, and with Mora and Teixiera on the corners, a ground ball pitcher could do a lot worse (BOS/NY !). Teixeira also seems to be being backed into a corner. Should he go for the money in Washington or play for a winner in Boston or LAA while looking like he's caving on his $$$ dreams? I think if the Orioles grab Lowe it increases our stock in the national media's eyes (if that really matters). I'm sure the AL East will be much more impressed with this double signing than Teixeira alone.
Again I submit for your review Mr Boras:
$200 million guaranteed money
Mark Teixeria - 6 years $135 million guaranteed offering a players opt out after 4 years. There would be mutual options for years 7,8,9 & 10 at 15 million per year (making for a potential total of $195 million over 10 years). The Orioles should write the contract so that they could exercise their portion of the mutual options on years 7&8 prior to the opt-out clause. In other words, if the O's were happy with Mark, Mark would have to walk away from $75 million guaranteed (potential $105 million) should he choose to opt out after 4 years, at age 33, certainly putting him in the "money grubbing bad guy" light.
Derek Lowe - 4 years $65 million guaranteed. At this point I think that's as good as he will see. Maybe a little overpay on our part but if structured correctly, not too much to unload him to a contender looking for pitching in year 2 or 3 should we still not be in the playoff chase, or needing a different piece for our own playoff chase because the young arms are pushing him out.
8yr/176mil with 3yr opt out claus. Lets get it done. After 5yrs we cant prove ourselves then it is what it is.
Hope to see you soon Tex. I will renew my DirecTV MLB package.
Thanks for the reads Roch!!
I don't think the Spankees and Suxx really are that interested in Teixeira, each one just doesn't want him going to the other. I think as long as they think the nationals are the front runners they will stay on the side lines. I don't know what they would do if the O's become the front runners in this thing, they may get involved just to keep him out of the division.
Andy may realize that, and that is why he is staying quite. Poised to strike at the last minute. If he comes on to strong and the Spankees or Suxx deside to get in just to keep the O's from getting him. That would drive the price thru the roof. That is exactlty what Boras is hoping for, and exactly what AM is trying to avoid. I think AM is playing it kool.He will make another offer when the time is right. I don't understand the Nationals, the Angels and Suxx drop out, and they up there offer! How stupid is this guy? Talk about bidding against yourself.no wonder the Nations are so bad, and getting worse every year.
Oh, by the way, last time I looked, Baseball America had 4 O's prospects in there top 50 and 3 in the top 20, I don't think the National can say that:p.
GO ORIOLES!
GHR wrote:
Jeremy Guthrie wouldn't be more than anyone else's 3rd of 4th starter - here he's number 1
Guthrie was 14th in the league in ERA last year and 13th the year before. Now who needs to pull there head out of the @ss
You guys just signed Daniel Cabrara for goodnes sake! Have you ever seen him pitch?
Roch- ORIOLES TRAGIC, FEEL IT HAPPEN!!!!
One thing though Roch, why would that source tell you the team would be willing to go 9 or 10?
Anyway, when you look at what the O's are going after, and not seriously pursuing Tex, I really don't see why we dont try to win. It is unbelievable. The Yanks and Sox, Marlins, these teams are SO MUCH better and well run than the O's its scary.
The 1 player that we have "coveted" for nearly a decade and nothing is going on.
I personally don't believe the O's have been in contact with Boras since the meeting.
Whats killing me is that everyone keeps saying how hard they are trying.
Why are we going after a bunch of 34 year old losers to bring them into the AL east where everyone will see that our 27-28 year old losers are just the same.
Very Upsetting. I wonder what the reports are gonna be when Tex finally signs? Excuses a plenty, I bet.
I'd rather they trade Tillman to the Reds for Joey Votto.
Players today forgot why you play baseball. Its not for the fame and glory or the millions and millions of dollars, its for the love of the game and to just have fun. I think Cal would say the same thing. If i had a chance to play for the Orioles I would do it in a a heart beat for the league minimum. Players have it good this day in age. When my father was a kid players had to have jobs during the off season. I don't think they played ball for the money back then. I could understand if Tex would want to go to a winning team, but the Nats. They the same chance of winning as Daniel Cabrera winning the NL Cy Young this year.
So Tex, you can stick it. We are tired of all of the games. You are so indecisive it's un-real. Oh, and for your agent... hes a jerk to.
Sincerely,
Love, Baltimore
Hey Roch: You were quoted in today's (12/23/08) Washington Post, and your scoop on Tex was used in an interview with a Nats executive, who said something like luxury goods are not being discounted. When the Post gives you enough credibility to use you as a source to ask a subsequent question, you are in the big leagues, my man. Show the Post to those bloggers, who whipsaw you with snide remarks. Keep on, keeping on.
Roch,
Do you know if Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta or Bergesen have any significant injury history? I dont know if i can take another hayden penn or adam loewen...
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None that I'm aware of. Bergesen had mono in '06 and didn't pitch after Aug. 10, but that doesn't count. He also was hit in the head during batting practice at Single-A Frederick but only missed one turn. - Roch
Today, I predict is T-day!! I will put it out there again!! I am not scared to have egg on my face, with this situation so many already have!! I predict Mark Teixeira will sign a contract today. This will either be Nationals or Orioles. I have been predicting today since he said by Christmas. That being said, If I am right,Mark Teixeira already knows which team he will join.
"What ever dude..." --Roch 12/22/08 9:58 pm
Way to set that hoser straight.
Roch- I said this to Pete too but..... The O's had 4-20 game winners in 1970. Their entire rotation might not win 20 this year. Its amazing who we are going after in some cases. Not going after in others. As it sits right now, and I know there are still a few months left, but, they are conceding the season before spring training starts. Do you really think about this organization? I mean, it's unbeleivable. The Royals, and Mariners, and Tigers, and all these teams, every offseason at least spend some money to try and get better.
We just eat the Front Office's, " Help is on the way, we just want some inning eaters, and see where our minor leaguers go, and blah, blah. blah, blah"
Think about it, why would anyone buy a ticket to see a team that will tell you, "We are not going to win".
I get that you don't want to sign certain players to long term contracts. But, take Ben Sheets for instance. Why not sign him for a 2 year deal, and maybe win that many more games WHILE WERE WAITING? WHO KNOWS? I mean our offense isn't really that bad. Guts and Sheets, maybe a bergesen or hernandez is impressive at ST. Who knows? Patton? Liz?
But CONCEDE?
I am just waiting for the announcement that we have signed Roger Dorn and Rick Vaughn.
"WHO ARE THESE F'N GUYS?"
THIS AINT THE CALIFORNIA PENAL LEAGUE ANDY!!!
I have such mixed feelings on the Mark Teixeira topic. On the one hand, I think the O's have to sign him to improve their credibility. And to me if they are offering 7 yrs/150 million then that's already a fair deal; although I might be willing to tack on an eighth year. It's already on par with the contract Miguel Cabrera received from the Tigers and he is only 25 yrs old and a better hitter (granted they bought one or two of his arbitration eligible years, so it's not an exact comparison).
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3307289
My problem is how far past insane MacPhail might have to go to get something done. Personally if this escalates any further, I'd move on and try and get more bang for the buck (Dunn, etc). Tex is very good, but not as good as these dollar amounts suggest.
nats and orioles are out. he's going to boston