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I have to admit that if losing Brian Roberts is inevitable it might be easier for the Orioles fans to swallow if it meant that they got to bring another local kid home. While we would lose a much loved lead off hitter and second baseman we would be getting a young pitcher who has already shown that he has an idea how to pitch in the major leagues. If the O's can get some sort of young potential future second baseman as well, I think they would pretty much HAVE to make that trade.

It would still break my heart to see Brian go, but in a situation like that I could live with it.

Sounds like a great trade if they include one or two more players. Roberts isn't going to resign with O's that should be apparent by now. Any news on your end about free agent Kenshin Kawakami? Just read Schmuck's blog, but do you have anymore insight? Thanks
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None of us know. We're all guessing. - Roch

And who plays 2B???
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I'll toss out a name in my next entry. - Roch

what are the orioles doing. maybe trading a guy that plays great defense and steals 50 bases. for a guy that won 17 games once and we have nobody to fill brians leadoff spot.

We all love Roberts, but I for one love good pitching more. I think you have to make that trade, even straight up. Floyd is a bona-fide #1 or #2 starter and we don't have many (if any) of those. Gotta do it.

Wow good info Roch...I'm very curious if this trade might come together? I'm pretty confident that if Kenny Williams wants someone he might try to pull the trigger to make it happen. I wonder who if anyone mcphail can pull from the sox besides floyd?

Now leading off and playing second base Ryan Freel.

Any chance we can throw Mora in the deal? He likes Guillen right? Actually does anyone like guillen besides ESPN?

Wow, so I guess its apparent he wont sign an extension. I heard you guys mention this on MASN on the hot stove show. I guess if there's no way we can keep Roberts here for longer, we gotta trade him for something and try to find another leadoff hitter sooner than later. I'll sure miss Roberts though, but I trust McPhail to do the best he can.

How long is Floyd under team control?

Quid pro quo, Kenny Williams, quid pro quo.

Evan - Your point in taken, but if Brian has no interest in signing an extension than in a year we wind up with base stealing lead-off hitter and no pitcher who has already won 17 games in the major leagues. It's only a questionable move IF Roberts shows interest in an extension.

Roberts for Gavin Floyd and Chris Getz or Brent Lillibridge would be a trade I would make. Chicago might want somebody else back for that deal. If that deal is on the table, MacPhail needs to make that trade!

can we get chris getz in that deal? he seems like he might be ready to be pulled up from AAA and seems to have good speed and bat control. he is also 25...so wonder if we could pull off that trade.

Something tells me we might see the return of Jerry Hairston in an interesting twist...

Make the trade, see if they are willing to sweeten it, but if not, take the 17-game winner he is more important than a 2b to us. He is young and would give us a credible 1-2 at the top of the rotation. Roberts is gone after this year.

2010-11 Rotation: Guthrie-Floyd-Matusz-Tillman-Arrieta.

Roch,
Is the name you are going to "toss out" in your next entry Jerry Hairston?

i hate to say this but trading roberts seems to be for the best. it is not looking as if he is willing to sign and we all must admit he deserved a chance to win! getting alot may be difficult due to his impending free agency.

tracy-your right only if he wants to stay.but i think that the orioles should offer him a 5 year deal at least 60 million

Orioles should trade not only Roberts but Huff as well, with the objective of getting players for all the four infield positions and a pitcher.

These players should be ready for the major leagues by the end of this year or by the middle of next year. There is no point in keeping the veterans when O's are not going to contend for another 3-4 years. And everybody knows that Huff doesn't like the Baltimore area, and might flee at the first opportunity.

Roch

I would jump on that like the cat on the Finstones... if Chicago would throw in someone to groom for 2nd base. What kind of prospects do the other Sox have? Anyone worth wild? Gavin Floyd seemed to finally get it last year how old is he and what is his contract info? Would we have him locked up for a few years?

I forgot about Freel he can play 2nd and also leadoff and steel bases correct?

Roch, does this mean that the Roberts mill is, for lack of a better word, on now?

Anyhow, I think this is a trade that looks good on paper, but the Orioles really need a bit more. Floyd is a nice end of the rotation arm (look past the 17 wins - A 4.78 FIP and a .268 BABIP tells a bigger story on his overall season, even if you think FIP is overrated, it still is a strong indicator - if you prefer xFIP, that was 4.61 (stats according to tht, well BABIP was from fangraphs).

I'd try to target Allen or Getz as a package.

Nice reporting Roch. Pitching we need and Floyd would be a great start.

TOMC13, if Roch's next entry is entitled Jerry Hariston I will throw up.....

I hate to see it but Roberts is likely gone to free agency so getting Floyd verses nothing is the best deal. Wouldn't be ironic if he left and the rebuilding plan works out where the team is competitive/playoff team in 2010?

Roch...since we are talking Minor Leaguers has anything been mentioned in regards to the coaching staffs at the Orioles affiliates in 2009? Usually we have heard something by now.
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Still waiting for the Orioles to announce it. There will be a few changes, but not many. - Roch

First off Darrin I like the Flintstones tie in................. I think Floyd, Getz, and Shelby should get it done..... for Roberts and Burres

Roch,

Any chance we can bring both the MD boys home?

BRob for Floyd and Lillibridge

&

Huff, a #6-#10 prospect and a #11-#15 prospect for Adenhart

As much as I've enjoyed watching BRob we must make this trade. I don't beleive he will sign an extension and who could blame him. He has a very good chance of going to a contender next year thru FA. If we can pick up a young pitcher who would be under our control for a number years, then you have to pull the trigger. Can AM pull this off and maybe even sweeten the take with a middle infielder?

Do the Orioles think they can get an infield prospect also in this package? Getz or more likely Shelby, Jr.?

WOW!!! It's great to see how everyone is so easily would be ready to let Roberts go (sarcasim). But, then again he might want to go himself - He's still not signed.

Why would Chicago do this,I know they need a lead off batter but who would be left to pitch!..Danks and Mark and three question marks at the end of the rotation!

There's no doubt in my mind that if Roberts is dealt, it's because he doesn't want to be with the Orioles any longer. My hat is off to him for remaining quiet about it. If he went public, his trade value would drop. I think he's a decent enough fellow that he doesn't want to do that to the Orioles.

Funny, but if I'm Kenny Williams, I don't know if I'd deal Floyd straight up for Roberts. I might want something more for my 17-game winner. Yet here we are anticipating that we get Floyd plus more. Sounds encouraging to me. This has me much more on the edge of my seat than the whole Teixeira story.

Then again, this could expand into a multi-player deal with several players going either way. Chris Getz looks pretty good to me... his numbers remind me of Rich Dauer... good contact hitter and potentially a decent number-two batter... or tuck him into the bottom of the lineup.

Can somebody please explain to me why having roots here is so important for a prospective FA or trade-acquired player? Does anybody think these guys are coming over for a barbecue if you can just get them to read your invitation? This is the dumbest criterion of all, ever, that I have read. Cal was a once-in-a-lifetime exception. And we'd have loved him if he was from Yonkers. Get lives, people. Andy, please, PLEASE sign Barry Shetrone as a coach -- he's from Glen Burnie!

As a Sox I don't want this. As dynamic as Roberts is we need the pitching more.

White Sox need a lead off hitter and Roberts is one of the best. W.Sox could then pick up Garland. Floyd would give the O's a stable #2.

My thoughts come down to this:

Is Gavin Floyd equal to a top 5 top of the order hitter/2B. Plus the 1st round draft pick and supplemental pick Roberts would net the O's if they let him go. Roberts is going to be a Type A Free Agent... right Roch?

No one wants Huff. His contract is high for a defensive liability and ultra streak hitter. He has more value to the Orioles than he does to another team because we have no one to replace him.

People forget that Mora is virtually untradeable. He is making $8MM+, he's old, and he's got a complete no-trade clause that he won't waive because his family likes it too much here.

I'd love to see Floyd and Getz for Roberts and filler. I'd love to see Floyd, Getz, and Escobar for Roberts and better filler. It's gonna break my wife's heart for Roberts to be traded, but it's for the best. Freel can play 2B and hopefully not get hurt while doing it. Getz can apprentice at 2B. Escobar would give us a SS prospect in the system, and he'd never make it past Beckham in their depth chart.

I guess I will be the first to say it:
"In MacPhail we Trust!"

Brian Roberts has his bags packed and both feet out the door. Money is not the issue. He will not sign here. Period. But,but do not trade a bona fide everyday player for only a pitcher. Ever. See Frank Robby and Milt Pappas among others. Andy has no choice but to press for more.

This would be a huge steal for the Orioles, and a disaster for the White Sox.

First, Floyd is a 17-game winner with very good stuff who is under cheap team control for 4 years. That is worth far more than one year of almost any position player, including Roberts. I'd love to see Roberts on the Sox, but, the O's would get the far better end of the bargain if this goes as a 1-for-1 trade.

Second, staffing-wise, this makes zero sense for the White Sox. They already have two huge question marks in the rotation (all after Buehrle, Danks, Floyd), and that would become three, which means forget about contending. And, the Sox have a whole plethora of 2B's right now.

Fortunately, this is pure speculation. No way the Sox do a deal like this.

Those who want to hang on to Roberts need to look not just at what he is, but what he will be in the next two or three years:

A) A player in his declining years; and,

B) probably on a team that is not Baltimore.

Meanwhile Floyd is a young pitcher with big upside, under team control for at least five more years. The Orioles will be overjoyed if Tillman and Arrieta and Matusz eventually become what Floyd is right now.

This is a classic opportunity for a rebuilding tea, even straight up, and if they manage to get Chris Getz in the deal it would be up there with the Bedard trade.

BTW 5 years/$60MM for Roberts would be total nuttiness. In five years Brian Roberts might not even be on a MLB roster.

Why would the White Sox even be remotely interested in this trade? It makes no sense to trade a 17-game winning 25-year-old for a thirty-something second baseman who's a free agent next year. Kenny would be a moron to make this trade and an even bigger moron to add anything to it.

As a White Sox season ticket holder, and a fan of winning baseball which the Sox do every year except once this decade, I have one thing to say to the Oriole fans on this board: Are you crazy? No way the Sox trade Gavin Floyd, under contract through 2011 and a 26 year old 17 game winner, for Brian Roberts alone. And you want more? If the Sox and Roberts can agree to an extension, then the Sox would consider this trade. If not, Roberts and your top pitching prospect minimum.

do you get the sense something could be imminent, or just that they have had a couple of preliminary discussions over the last couple of weeks? In other words, you think there is a realistic chance this happens?

Although I'm a big Brian Roberts fan, finally here is is a deal that makes some sense. Gavin Floyd looks like he'd be a really good fit, and his 3.84 American League ERA is a real accomplishment for a 25 year old (30 HR in 33 starts is a bit scary, though).

His curve ball is a real plus pitch he can use to strike out batters from either side of the plate.

For Gavin's outstanding breaking pitch on display, see the "Floyd's great start" video, in which he totally embarrasses a very solid Tiger lineup: http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=425856

As promising as is Floyd's future (and he can help the Orioles right away), I think Andy MacPhail is right to get a little more. Finding someone to fill B-Rob's shoes is not going to be an easy task, as he is not only an above average defender and base stealer, but one of the very best leadoff hitters in all of baseball.

And people shouldn't kid themselves if they think Brian's career is going to crash and burn pretty soon because he'll be 31 next season. The guy is a fitness freak and in better shape than a lot of guys five years his junior. Barring a serious injury, it's reasonable to think that he'll be playing at a high level five or six years from now, much as Ichiro.

So, the O's are giving up a great deal (and I haven't mentioned that he's a terrific teammate and, of course, an asset to any community where he plays--just ask the kids in hospitals and their parents!). In short, considering that he's given the Orioles six fine seasons so far, Brian's much too valuable to give up just for an up-and-coming starter who has yet to prove he isn't a one-hit wonder, and that 2008 wasn't a career year for him.

All things being equal, my strong preference is to see B-Rob right in the middle of the picture as the O's celebrate their next World Championship. If that isn't possible, then this looks like the beginning of the first credible offer for him.

Roch

If we get Gavin Floyd how long before he becomes a free agent.

Roch,

What do most of the experts think is the time line for the end of the rebuilding process? I seem to recall that when Andy came on board it was hinted that it would be two or three years. If that timeline is correct, wouldn't BRob be leaving just as we are supposed to become competitive (assuming he'd want to explore free agency rather than signing an extension)?

as a diehard sox fan, floyd straight up for roberts I don't think would happen. sox can't afford to give up pitching right now.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if we could also get an infield or pitching prospect also. Roberts is pretty valuable, and I would hate to see him go, but getting a young, MLB-ready starter sounds REALLY good too. I don't know about a straight-up trade though.

Thanks.

This is hilarious!

There is no way McFail could get a 25 year old 17 game winner on the upswing for a FA Roberts without much more coming back to the Sox.

This is a smokey, and considering Floyd is one of Kenny Williams "guys" this isnt going to happen, and leaving a huge hole in the Sox rotation, coupled with the trades KW has made to increase his infield depth, it doesnt make sense unless the O's top pitching prospects (read= 2 or 3) were coming along with Roberts.

The White Sox have a pure stud in Beckham waiting in the wings, who's ceiling is higher than Roberts, who can play second, this is a fantasy.

Well, mixed emotions here. Floyd is a good young talent but who on this club is going to hit? I would figure someone would be brought in to protect Markakis, Jones and Huff. Who replaces the 50 doubles and 30 SB's?

This could pave the way for Olson for Pie and Freel at 2b but jot that lineup down and see how you feel. Fill out a lineup three years from now and see how that feels?

As much as I like Floyd, the guy has had one good year, huge upside, but in two years this lineup will be pathetic, not one current Oriole player or minor league player projects to be playing in that infield on opening day 2011. And this makes the young pitchers better how exactly?

If Roberts goes then someone must be able to fill his spot immediately, and for long term. Remember, the strength of every good team is up the middle. The catcher and CF positions seem to be taken care of, what about the middle of the infield?

Hey Roch,

Interesting potential trade. What is Floyd's contract status? Obviously, the longer he's under club control the better.

Roch, do you happen to know when the list of spring training invites is announced? Thanks for any information you can provide.

Why would the White Sox trade a 17 game winner for a guy they would only have control of for 1 year, The Orioles would have to sweeten the pot a lot.

Roch,

Just curious, I see you broke this story (congrats)but it makes me wonder? Do you think this was leaked to improve other potential offers? Could this be to check the reaction of the fans in the event their favorite Oriole is traded? This comes as no surprise that Roberts name is or will be mentioned in trades now that signing Tex has failed to sign here but maybe the mention of Roberts going someplace may make others push harder, or maybe, due to the fact that we are in the beginning of ticket sales, someone wants to see how this may affect this years attendance. Your thoughts?

And the local kid reference.......... well let's just say I am still feeling the effects of the last guy and I am in no mood to settle.

I hate to lose Brian but getting Floyd would ease the pain.Can't believe the sox would make this trade,hope I'm wrong.

brian roberts is an oriole and will always be an oriole

I love this trade and think the O's WILL get more than Floyd. He did win 17 games, because mainly he was real good in the 1st half of the season. His 2nd half was kind of shaky, and he was on the verge of leaving their rotation in August. Ergo, K. Williams may think he's not giving away so much. He did somewhat get it together late to win some tough games down the sretch. He's not a sure thing, but he's a gamer...not quite equal to an everyday all-star caliber 2b...no matter the money. I think Gavin (yes we're on a first name basis) got a little tired in the 2nd half...he pitched a lot of innings. K. Williams is down on Josh Fields and vice versa...you never know...Mora/Roberts plus cash for Floyd/Fields.

Compared to Adam LaRoche and Brian Giles, which is what Flanaquette was going to get for Roberts AND Hayden Penn, this trade sounds good. Floyd plus a decent infield prospect should get the job done.

Love B-Rob as an Oriole, but he isn't going to re-sign now that we failed in the Teixeira sweepstakes. Getting a young, local 17-game-winner in return is worth it.

I guess the Chicago guys that pop in here think Floyd is more then a 1 year wonder. I think he is just Jon Garland 2. Great one year and only ok the rest of the time. KW might be thinking the same way. But I think they also do not understand that if Roberts did leave the W.Sox would be picking up 2 top 50 draft picks in compensation. Roberts wants to win so I do not see him signing with one of the losing teams. So is Floyd worth 2 top 50 draft picks? No.

Roberts is leaving via free agency next year. No doubt about it. Sox should wait and sign him next year and give Getz a chance this year. If he falters, go after Roberts. If he succeeds, forget about Roberts and his 5 year $50 mill. Not to mention a fellow named Gordon Beckham. Trade Floyd for Roberts, maybe, if we get a Markakis in the deal. This won't happen. Orioles will lose again this year. A new rebuilding "process" will begin in 2010. Adam Jones will hit 10 hr's and drive in 50 with a .275 BA and everyone will understand why Andy has the word Fail in his last name.

I am from Chicago and this would be a terrible trade for the White Sox without Floyd the Sox would only have Danks and Buehrle to start. This trade makes no sense for the White Sox. Either way losing Roberts to get Floyd or keeping Roberts the Orioles will still lose.

Brock, you said it all. Hilarious indeed.

You Orioles fans are quite insane. Why don't you just ask for Mark Buerhle and Carlos Quinten in return as well? IF Kenny Williams were that bone headed just to do a Floyd for Roberts straight up, THAT would be a major steal alone. THEN you want Getz as well? Roll me up some of what you guys are smokin....

Brock, Brock, Brock..........

If Roberts comes to Chicago, you can be sure that Andy will rob you guys blind. I mean, we're talking Floyd, Getz, and at least one more, maybe two or three. The ORIOLES will have to throw in 2-3 top pitching prospects?! LOL, you have no idea who you're dealing with. I mean, we got three players for Ramon-freakin'-Hernandez. If you're lucky, we'll "throw in" Garrett Olson, but that will up it to at least a 5-for-2 deal, more probably 6.

And only Orioles fans are allowed to call him "MacFail."

Hey XD23. What you don't understand is a team has to offer arbitration to receive draft picks and that will not happen. With no arb, he walks with nothing in return.

No way this is happening. Floyd is exactly what the Chisox prefer, young starting pitchers at low salaries. The Chisox have their sights set on Orlando Hudson. They are waiting for somoen to sign Orlando Cabrera so they get a "wash" with the loss of draft pick by signing Hudson. They are also waiting for Hudson's price to fall into line with their budget

Ray,

I actually think you should throw in Carlos Quentin. A potential MVP deserves to have fans who can at least spell his name correctly.

You're so right Sluggo...he deserves that and oh so much more. Your intelligence is so far superior, thank you kindly for setting me straight.

Offering Roberts arbitration is a no brainer. Roberts is not making huge money like Dunn and Abreu. Brian will make $8 mil this season. He will be able to get a multi-year deal in the $12-14 mil a year range. I know the O's would offer arbitration without blinking. I think the W.Sox would too since they did it for Cabrera and he is paid more then Roberts and is not even close to being the same type of leadoff hitter.

Although still a good player, Roberts is nothing more than a solid 30-something second baseman with good speed (which will decline) and little power (when not on the juice). He's going to get $12-$14 million for 3-4 years (into his mid-30s) in these times? Don't think so. Cabrera was not offered arbitration by the Sox because they knew he wouldn't accept when relegated to a back-up role in '09.

Roch can you help on this.

If the O's are planning to go to spring traing pretty much as they are, several things seem evident:
1. There are no encouraing signs for Roberts to sign here.
2. Markekis is mor likely to tire of the negotiations lingering and want to hold off for his chance to grab something where the sun shines on hope.
3. This year is going to to be a pure disaster from a fan appreciation stand point. Spending money where there is no entertainment is what STUPID!. It appears the O's organization has taken the posture the fan is not improtant at this point. Stands will be empty. Listen for the echo unless you are a Boston or Yankee fan.
4. 100+ losses is a real possiblity. What is the Record for losses by a team in mlb?????

Ed So Pa Fan said:
Roch can you help on this.

Yes, please help him spell.

If the O's are planning to go to spring traing pretty much as they are, several things seem evident:
1. There are no encouraing signs for Roberts to sign here.

Other than the dozen or so potential major league quality starting pitchers we have in the pipeline, plus the fact that here he is a star and somewhere else he would be just another player.

2. Markekis is mor likely to tire of the negotiations lingering and want to hold off for his chance to grab something where the sun shines on hope.

IIRC, it was Markakis who put the Orioles on hold, not the other way around. His agent wanted to see what Burrell, Abreu, et al received in the open market before making a counter-offer to the Orioles who *did* make the first move back in early December.

3. This year is going to to be a pure disaster from a fan appreciation stand point. Spending money where there is no entertainment is what STUPID!. It appears the O's organization has taken the posture the fan is not improtant at this point. Stands will be empty. Listen for the echo unless you are a Boston or Yankee fan.

How is this year going to be less entertaining than previous seasons? Same offense (perhaps better with Jones' development and Wieters' appearance), no more Daniel, potential callup for Matusz midseason. I don't see this team being worse entertainment-wise than last season.

4. 100+ losses is a real possiblity. What is the Record for losses by a team in mlb?????

The major league record for losses in a season is 120 by the 1962 Mets, followed by 119 by the 2003 Tigers. Note that the Mets won a World Series seven seasons later, and the Tigers were in the World Series three seasons later.

One year ago this would have been a great trade for the Sox. But the thin is this isn't a year ago, it's January 09. Brian Roberts is a great player but with the rotation the Sox have we can't afford to make this trade. Plus Roberts is a free-agent after this season anyways. If the Sox win this year it will be because of Pitching not Brian Roberts

Ok,Brain Roberts is a great leadoff man,steals atleast 40 bases a year and almost always has a 3.00 batting avg.He sould NOT get traded for a guy that got 17 wins a pitcher can only do so much yea i no its a start to get one guy that hasnt proven himself yet.You dont get rid of Brian Roberts for him when your club is going to need alot more pitching and has shown there not going after any other pitchers

If the Orioles are not going to contend for a playoff spot in 2009, there is no reason to keep Brian Roberts. They can just as easily finish outside of the playoffs without him. A smart GM sees this and concentrates on assembling the core of a 2010-2012 team that could compete.

The trade, straight up, could be a good one for both teams but better for the Orioles. Orioles are not likely to win now so should be looking to make moves that will position them to win later. Four years of Floyd in exchange for one year of Roberts is a better deal than losing Roberts among the lean pickings of next year's free agent class.

The only reason the White Sox would make this deal is if they believe Roberts will be the difference between them going to the postseason or not in 2009. Otherwise, there's no point.

The reasonable expectation for now is that the White Sox probably wouldn't pull the trigger on this deal and will award their second base job to the winner between Getz, Nix, and Lillibridge and keep Floyd. Of those three, I'd bet on Lillibridge.

Mr. Kubatko,
I suggest you limit your musings to the Northeast United States in the future. You obviously have no clue what's going on in American League Mid-West baseball regards your Roberts-for-Floyd trade rumors. In fact, you probably have never read ANYTHING about the White Sox this off-season, but you did get a BIG splash nationally with this fantasy, and after all, that's what it's all about in sports-journalism these days, correct? More the pity. At least it isn't plagiarism. Who else would have published such idiocy?
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Hey Tony, I suggest you learn how to read. I wrote that Williams loves Roberts and has talked to the Orioles about him, and they brought up Floyd. All true. Didn't say the White Sox offered Floyd, which is how the story was spun by people like you. And don't drop a Mr. Kubatko on me as if you're going to be respectful and then turn rude. Now crawl back into your hole. - Roch