The first-timers
Did you know the Orioles used 48 different players in 2009, including 27 pitchers, nine infielders, eight outfielders and four catchers?
Well, they did.
Twenty-three players made their Orioles debuts: Robert Andino, Michael Aubrey, Brad Bergesen, Jason Berken, Adam Eaton, Ryan Freel, Mark Hendrickson, Sean Henn, David Hernandez, Rich Hill, Cesar Izturis, Chris Lambert, Brian Matusz, Cla Meredith, Chad Moeller, Felix Pie, Nolan Reimold, Guillermo Rodriguez, Chris Tillman, Justin Turner, Koji Uehara, Matt Wieters and Ty Wigginton. Nine of them also made their major league debuts: Bergesen (April 21), Berken (May 26), Hernandez (May 28), Matusz (August 4), Reimold (May 14), Tillman (July 29), Turner (September 8), Uehara (April 8) and Wieters (May 29).
The Orioles have now used 871 players all-time, though I'm still not sure whether Jim Brower should count.
Maybe this is the right time to pose today's question:
Which Oriole have you booed longer and louder than anyone else?
I'd also be interested in the reason. Poor performance or attitude? Was it due to one particular moment on or off the field, or an accumulation of things that sent you over the edge? And did you feel at least a little guilty afterward, or would you do it all over again if given the chance?
I'm not talking about an individual who used to play here and returned to Camden Yards with another team. I mean somebody who was still wearing orange and black.
Of the 23 names that I listed above, we can pretty much guarantee that Bergesen, Izturis, Matusz, Reimold, Tillman, Uehara and Wieters will return. Wigginton and Pie are strong possibilities unless packaged in a trade. Berken might move to the bullpen if the club doesn't start him at Triple-A Norfolk. The same goes for Hernandez, though he has a much better chance of cracking the Orioles' rotation.
I expect Hendrickson to re-sign and wear many hats in the bullpen - though not at the same time or he might distract the hitters. Same reason you can't wear a white glove. But since he's a pending free agent, I'm leaving him off the "guaranteed" list.
Andino and Turner will compete for a utility job. Aubrey will try to convince the Orioles' brass that he can supply enough power to play first base, but he'll have competition from within the organization, and perhaps outside of it.
Meredith might have done enough to warrant a return. Henn is left-handed, so you never count him out. I could see Moeller getting another chance to back up Wieters. But again, that's hardly a guarantee.
Eaton won't be allowed across the state lines.
I didn't mention Hill because I'm really stumped. I've suggested that, because he didn't cost much, there's no risk in bringing him back to spring training and taking one more look. But he just as easily could be a 40-man casualty. There's still a lot of work to do on him, plus the health issue.
By the way, if you can remember which pitcher surrendered Reimold's first major league hit...well, I don't know what, but you deserve some sort of award. Or you're in dire need of a vacation.
Hint: He appeared in last night's game after being designated for assignment and traded.
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Categories (click for archive)Roch Kubatko | Roch Kubatko Orioles |
Reimold's first major league hit was an infield single against the Royals, but I can't remember the pitcher. I watched him pound his first major league home run off Mariano Rivera on the YES Network, though, and that was sweet.
I try not to ever boo a player from my own team. Having said that, the one exception was Palmiero for being a liar.
I sat behind the dugout one night and booed the heck out of Jerry Hairston for popping up a bunt against the Yankees. That guy irritated me for some reason.
Ron Mahay, whom I wouldn't mind seeing the Orioles get for the bullpen.
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Yep, that's it. And nice use of the word "whom." - Roch
I'm not a big "Boo'er", but the top of my list would me
Kevin Millar - some of the worst clutch hitting, always managed to strike out or pop up in key situations.
Melvin Mora - this year, ditto
Sammy Sosa - ditto, being a horrible failure after coming off the roids
Karim Garcia - for being such a meat head
Omar Daal - just terrible
Tony Tarasco - for not jawing that little brat and coming down with the ball
The major league level is not a place you use to learn how to pitch control the ball. To say give Hill a chance merely because he is cheap is thinking like the Pirates. It is this mentality which Andrew uses and Ole Pete encourages which keeps us in last place. Hill showed everything he needed to show. He is an oft injured pitcher who blames everyone for his inability to throw strikes except himself.
On a hot stove show which he called in, Hill said his problems were with his back with the Cubs. He never mentioned his shoulder. Now that he falters with the Orioles, he suddenly has shoulder problems. Stop making excuses Hill. You simply dont have it to pitch at this level.
But hey lets keep him because he is cheap.......
And while we are at it, lets bring 30 pitchers to camp who all are releases from other teams and say we have safety in quanity, That worked wonderful last year.
The cards have been dealt...Andrew it is your time to play the hand or FOLD
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I'm not suggesting that they take another look at him simply because he's cheap. He's had success at this level. Go back a few years and check his numbers. - Roch
I believe it was Ron Mahay. He looked pretty good last night, though for sure. It was awesome (for me) seeing all those Rochester Red Wings on the national stage, representing my city: Tolbert, Morales, Scott Baker, Jesse Crain, just to name a few.
In terms of an Oriole I have booed, I remember booing the tandem of Bigbie and Matos quite frequently...mostly because they disapointed me in both play and attitude. I also booed Garrett Olsen like he had personally insulted my family...actually that whole crew of pitchers: Olsen, Liz, etc. There have been more boos than I am proud of, that is for sure. D-cabs got his fair share in the later years, haha. I'll see if I can think of any more...
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Mahay is correct. I'd suggest that you advance to the bonus round, except we don't have a bonus round here. - Roch
TERRY MATTHEWS!!! Or as we all called him Tank A$$.
AWFUL!!!
Everyone seems to overlook Alberto Castillo (due to age?). He seemed to be the only consistent reliever we had at the end of the year and no one seems to include him in their makeup of the 2010 O's. I would hope he gets a real chance to make the club.
The only Oriole's I've really booed were Baez in 2007 and Walker this year even though Walker was a real stand-up guy.
That would be the immortal Ron Mahay
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And that would be correct. - Roch
I'm not in the habit of booing any Orioles. If they are wearing the uniform of my favourite team, then I cheer for them. There is one exception, though... Albert Belle. I can remember shaking my head in disbelief after hearing he was signed. I don't care about his skills as a ballplayer; I have a hard time rooting for highly-publicized jerks.
That's why I cringe when I read suggestions that the team should pursue players like Milton Bradley or re-acquire Eric Bedard. Why bring these prima donnas into the fold? Their poisonous attitudes will negatively influence the younger players. Let them be someone else's problem.
Ron Mahay???
HAnds down I booed Matt ALbers more than anyone else all season long. I think I almost went into cardiac arrest a couple times I was booing so hard.
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Correct. - Roch
Reimold's first hit came off of Ron Mahay... ok Roch, so what do I win? haha!
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The good news is you're correct. The bad news...well, you can probably figure it out. - Roch
I probably booed Bob Milacki the most. He did some good things for the Orioles, but then everything started going downhill. Oh and then their was the time he snubbed me for an interview after a bad outing. I can understand why, but it's just the way he said it.
In all my years of watching the Orioles I can't recall booing any one particular player. That said I do boo every single player who doesn't hustle. There is no excuse for not hustling 100% of the time while on the field. And I also boo any player who stands in the batters' box admiring his "home run" only to have the ball bounce on the warning track and he gets thrown out at second base.
Roch, During the Twins/Tigers game last night, I turned to get something out a drawer and then I heard Huff mentioned and something about pants leg being too long. Were they talking about Aubrey?
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I didn't hear that discussion, but he did pinch-hit. Probably him. - Roch
Raffy and Miggy....booed the most...two liars and cheaters....Raffy after roids...Miggy after he said he wanted out...as soon as the Red Sucks needed a shortstop....BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Having played baseball in college and been a high school baseball coach for many years, I never boo a player for performance issues. That doesn't mean I'm a homer and think every Oriole player is perfect. Far from it. I can look at a players performance and recognize that he doesn't belong in the majors, but I won't boo him. I know how hard it is. I know this, because I really wanted to do it, and was quite simply, not good enough.
Having said that, the two Orioles I've booed, hissed at, (would have spit at if I could have afforded the expensive seats), the most have been Albert Belle, and Ramon Hernandez. Albert for being...... well..... Albert. And Ramon for being the most cowardly catcher certainly in O's history, and maybe in all of baseball since the dawn of man.
Mahay?
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Correct. - Roch
Armando Benitez...it wasn't just that he sucked as a closer, but that he really didn't seem to care that he did.
I believe it was Ron Mahay.
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Ding ding ding. You are correct! - Roch
Steve Klein. Terry Matthews. Joey Belle (though technically not an Oriole when I booed the loudest). No guilt. Good question Roch. Way to keep the entertainment quotient high!
Bobby Bonilla for being lazy running down a ball in the corner. And Albert Belle for turning a double into a single for being lazy running the bases. Oh yeah, Ramon Hernandez for being lazy not blocking a ball in the dirt. Just don't be lazy I guess. That said, I'm not a big booer. And never will boo a college athlete.
I've never booed an Orioles player in person, but I've been most befuddled by Mora over the years. He always seemed to me to be the player that was most indicative of our downfall - no matter how good his stats were. Great plays followed by bonehead ones, big hits, followed by stupid running/bunting mistakes.
It was never for lack of trying, but I will always equate him to the toughest era in Orioles history...
Mike Young, aka "Rally Killer."
I can't believe nobody here has mentioned Jay Gibbons. I'm not into booing my own players, but that guy used to infuriate me to no end. He would tease you with his ability to hit homers (thanks to steroids), but you cringed when he came to the plate because you knew he was going to pop it up to an infielder or strike out almost every at-bat. Probably the most frustrating every-day player I can remember watching in a Baltimore uniform over the last 25 years.
I also try not to boo our own, especially when we are outnumbered in our own Yard, but opening day last year, I booed both Huff and Millar for their off season comments/activities. I ceased booing when I saw the Os Magic remake video with Millar and when Huff put up 32 homeruns.
No question... Terry Matthews (my wife still laughs at me 'cause I turn bright red whenever his name is brought up) and/or the great Mike DeJean.
We also had a pitcher in the late 80's called Jose JJ Bautista that Marty Bass used to call "Boom Boom" Bautista... the old joke was what were the first three words Jon Miller would say each time JJ was brought into a game...? "THERE IT GOES!"
I don't "boo" much, but I will say that whenever Sosa got up, my friends and I would take bets on how he would get out. The best odds were on "dinky ground ball to third."
If I were to boo, he'd be one, and anyone who doesn't run out their hits would get booed, too. I'm with the guy who said he doesn't like lazy players.
Boo an Oriole? I don't think so.
Experiencing a passing urge to commit homicide by strangulation? You betcha! Gosh, there were so many that I fantasied about demoting with "extreme prejudice:"
- Sir Sidney who needs no introduction as the MBO -- Most Booable Oriole.
- Scott Erickson, Sir Sydney's concert companion
- The disenchanted Miguey.
- Glenn Davis because he is the answer to: "What was the worse trade in Orioles history?"
- Daniel Cabrera with his cabeza dura.
- Ramon Hernandez for his impersonation of a matador when "blocking home."
- Albert Belle when he crushed Fernando Vina who foolishly came between Albert and second base.
- Armando Benitez because of the brawl he instigated and then sought refuge in the dugout and a memorable gopher ball to tony Fernandez.
- Robbie Alomar because of his liquid comment to Umpire John Hirschbeck.
- Cal for many reasons: umpteen batting stances, GIDPs, leaving RISP; always fleeting impulses.
When I was younger I remember being at a few games booing Mike Timmlin, I hated that guy, it seemed like he always gave up leads, yet he went to Boston and got two rings, so what do I know.
Joe Altobelli. For some reason my friends and I hated that guy. We had a cheer in which, for some immature reason, we transposed his name:
"Al Joetobelli, your brain is full of jelly"
I can't believe no one has said Ponson yet?
While I don't boo major league players for their play, as it takes a highly, highly talented and gifted athlete to even make it to the majors, I will boo players for extremely poor behavior/decisions/conduct. Players that put themselves above the sport/team. Players such as Barry Bonds, Kevin Brown, Terrell Owens, Keyshawn Johnson, Michael Crabtree etc.
I do believe you should never boo a member of your hometown team. I do NOT subscribe to the theory that purchasing a ticket entitles a fan to boo and insult the players.
When it comes to the Orioles, this season in particular, I came close to booing Jamie Walker and Dave Trembley (1. for Walker's horrible results and 2. Trembley for consistently throwing him out there on the mound acting like he might actually get a left handed hitter out). I also came close to booing Mora for his ill-timed, non-justified complaints about lack of playing time and lack of respect. But I gave him a pass because it was so out of character and didn't line up with all the support he's give the O's over his career.
If there was ever an Oriole that could draw my ire enough to boo, it had to be Albert Belle. Hands down winner. I hated the signing from day one. He was not part of the "Oriole way" and caused the Orioles to "jump the shark". Has he caused this "12 yr curse"? lol :o)
I am showing my age by saying Eddie Watt. He was never forgiven for keeping the Orioles from sweeping the Reds.
Hendrickson needs to be resigned so he can start games in September. He is one of two guys that the O's have who can actually pitch a full MLB season.
I did not boo Aubrey Huff after his "talk" about Baltimore. I did, however BOOO loudly pretty much anytime Ramon Hernandez playing his last year here.
I booed Joey Belle more than any other Oriole. I would have been Ok w/ his antics if he performed as he should have on the field. Aubrey Huff is a close second after the comments he made about Baltimore on a sophmoric radio show.
I've never consistently booed anyone in an Orioles uniform. I'll boo for a little while when a player makes a bad play or does something stupid, but I've never booed any of the hometown players a lot. Not even Adam Eaton, though there were a lot of individual occasions where I booed myself hoarse because of him. :) I think it was a combination of the poor performance and the fact that we brought him in knowing he was terrible.
Debuting players this year (who were still with the team at the end of the year) and what I think will happen to them:
Robert Andino-loses the utility job to Justin Turner
Michael Aubrey-next year's first baseman
Brad Bergesen-in the rotation next year
Jason Berken-in the rotation next year... at Norfolk.
Mark Hendrickson-re-signed to pitch in relief
Sean Henn-left off the 40-man
David Hernandez-in the bullpen next season
Rich Hill-should be left off the 40-man, but probably won't
Cesar Izturis-Next year's shortstop. I'd be OK with a 1-2-year extension because of his defense.
Chris Lambert-left off the 40-man
Brian Matusz-in the rotation next year
Cla Meredith-in the bullpen next year
Chad Moeller-Wieters' backup next year
Felix Pie-4th OF next year
Nolan Reimold-starting LF
Guillermo Rodriguez-left off the 40-man
Chris Tillman-in the rotation next year
Justin Turner-utility player next season
Koji Uehara-in the bullpen... maybe as the closer, since he did it in Japan.
Matt Wieters-Starting C when not healing the sick and walking on water
Ty Wigginton-traded in the offseason
Aubrey Huff--He insulted my city and it got personal. That opening day was the most I've boo'd anyone in person, I did feel like a traitor to the Home team.
I still can't stand him and his lack of perspective. No amount of positive press on him has changed my opinion, I don't care that he's a prankster, he's funny, or that he had a good year in 2008...... I remain fearful of his return.
Roch-
In your honest opinion, do you think the O's will make the moves necessary to compete for the playoffs next season?
I get really scared when we say we'll try Aubrey at 1b.
You are just not going to win that way.
I get nervous when they say they will not trade for an impact bat.
You are just not going to win that way.
If they are not willing to overpay dramatically to bring an "ace" in.
You are just not going to win that way.
If we are content to wait for someone in the minors to bloom into "Arod", we are just kidding ourselves.
If that is the case, it made no sense what-so-ever to extend Markakis. You are not getting the most out of the players we have without a feared batter protecting the whole line-up.
Honestly, what does your gut say? More of the same? I guess we will know come February which road. More Wiggington's and Huff's or a legit All-Star.
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How many moves would it take to go from 98 losses to playoff contention? If this team finishes above .500 next season, I'll be high-fiving myself. I think they'll add a few bats and hope the young players take the next step. I just don't see how they're going to bring in an offensive beast without giving up some quality young pitching. - Roch
I remember booing Reggie Jackson as a kid in 1976, mostly because my uncle said he was bad mouthing Earl Weaver and the team.
I booed Steve Klein, not just for his bad attitude but for his lack of hustle.
I booed Dennis Martinez back when he couldn't get anyone out in 1984 (though I later found out he was dealing with some serious issues).
I won't boo an Oriole due to performance, performace enhancement yes, performance no. Off the field activity and laziness will get you booed. Here is my list, in order of most booable to least booable.
Sidney makes #1 because of the sheer volume of off the field antics
Raffy makes second for the magnitude of his lie
Miggy for wanting out shortly after getting here
Gibbons third for apologizing after his hand being caught in the cookie jar
Ramone for phoning it in his last year
Bedard for hooking himself after 5 innings start after start
Tough since I have to do in front of my television, but a few that I would have booed had I seen them live...mainly for the disgrace they were on the field and maybe attitude.
Ryan Freel and Adam Eaton this year -- no question.
Roberto Alomar after he spit at the umpire -- no excuse for that behavior.
Ramon Hernandez for lack of effort/hustle.
Scott Erickson -- Attitude
Storm Davis -- Attitude, met him once and he was a jerk.
It would be tempting to put Glenn Davis on the list, but I really wanted him to succeed. And I did boo him when he was with the Omaha Royals a few years later because of the job he did (or lack thereof) in Baltimore. I am pretty sure he could hear my cracking on him about his time with the Orioles as I was right above the dugout and there were like 200 people in the stands. He took the next pitch over right field fence...lol
I used to boo the fabulous Sidney Ponson. The king of throwing a two hit shut out and the next
start getting shelled for seven runs in 1 2/3 innings
Since Smucker had this up as a question, I went ahead and decided to post here also...
From the Zrebiec's column in the Sun...rating the Oriole players...
Roberts is by far the best. Does not quite deserve an A, due to issues in mid-season, but is clearly the best we have. Izturis is a sold B and played about as well as we can expect. Andino looked like he could have been a B, but just did not deliver after filling in for Izturis. The rest was basically a disaster.
C Robert Andino
D Aubrey Huff
B Cesar Izturis
C- Melvin Mora
B+ Brian Roberts
D Ty Wigginton
Reimold get the highest marks in the outfield, partially due to consistency and partially because of hustle/attitude. Jone and Markakis were solid, but not exceptional this year, and Pie show great improvement after starting the season very poorly. Scott just did not deliver and was only this high due to first half numbers. We could have 4 B+ or better outfielders next year and that is very positive.
B Adam Jones
B Nick Markakis
B Felix Pie
B+ Nolan Reimold
C Luke Scott
Catching in the end was solid. Wieters late season burst propelled him to a B+ in my book (though just barley). If he can keep that type of average, bump up the power and continue to work the pitching staff, this guy is going to be an A. Zaun did a fine job in his role andwas really starting to come through at the plate before the trade so I moved him to a B- from my original C/C+ thought. I added Moeller as I thought he did very well after coming back from AAA. Would not mind having him as a backup next year if he can be productive as a backup like he was in the 2nd half.
B+ Matt Wieters
B- Gregg Zaun
B- Chad Moeller
Starting rotation is tough. Bergesen and Matusz end up being my top picks in the end, but neither were quite A material...yet. Berken was lower, but started some some improvement in the last month so I gave him a C-. Still think he needs a little more work at AAA, but I believe he can be an end of the rotation starter. So there is really no such thing as an F-, but Eaton was worthless, One of the moves I knew was going to be made when he was released in the spring, but IMHO, one of McPhail's few mistakes -- and a big one. Guthrie and Hernandez gave up to many HR's to and cannot be considered any better then barely average this year. Hill was almost as bad as Eaton, thought might have something if his issues are really
injury related. Koji just could not finish off and the injury did not help his value. As many have stated, this guy looks like he will be a better pitcher out the pen...I still like the idea of trying him as closer with his control. Tillman has potential and is young, but still has some things to learn and did not perform well enough to merit a better grade at this time.
B+ Brad Bergesen
C- Jason Berken
F- Adam Eaton
C Jeremy Guthrie
C- David Hernandez
D- Rich Hill
B+ Brian Matusz
C+ Chris Tillman
C- Koji Uehara
The bullpen ended up being a disaster, but I still blame part of that of the starting pitcher's not going deep. Regardless, there are very few bright spots here. Hendrickson was one of them, and even showed some really nice stuff as a spot starter in September -- probably should be in the pen again next year. Baez started hot and end so-so. Albers and Bass look like mop up guys at best...can't see keeping them around. Johnson's late season numbers were horrible -- don't care if it was in a different role. The setup role is not much different and we could not have used him in that role the was he pitched late. Sherrill was good while he was here -- better then last year -- but still a little wild. Trade hurt the pen, but probably will be good for the team in the end. Ray -- can't figure him out. Untouchable in Spring Training, unworkable in the 1st half. Comes back from AAA and goes on very bad streaks and very good streaks. Deserves another chance to see if his elbow / mechanics were the issue, but his window of opportunity will be very small. Lot of work to be done for next year, But with Kam's performance and better work out of the starters next year, will be manageable.
D Matt Albers
C Danys Baez
D Brian Bass
B+ Mark Hendrickson
C Jim Johnson
C Cla Meredith
D Chris Ray
B+ George Sherrill
Finally, I really do not believe Trembley did things very well this year. After seeing the comments with his extension, I wonder if he has some restrictions from the FO on how he could manage this year. I believe he neither had the discipline needed, nor the decision making to help the team succeed to it's best ability. On the other hand, he also was not given a lot to work with from the FO. McPhail did some things okay this year, but I believe he was a little less effective. I liked the Pie deal from the beginning and it appears to have worked out okay, the Sherrill/Bell trade could end up be very good for the Orioles, but none of the other deals this year had very much impact and did little to help the team do much going forward. We need at least one difference making deal this winter (two of three would be better, but unlikely).
C- Trembly
C+ McPhail
Roch,
Do you know the date when the 40-man rosters need to be set?
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16 days after the World Series. - Roch
I regret booing Ryan Minor. My first Os game was 1999 vs the Mets and Cal was on the DL, so Minor started in his place. It wasn't his fault he was replacing a legend...
I also booed (cheered) when Steve Kline committed a balk and tried to fight the umpire... I actually wanted the ump to win.
My younger brother and I both booed Ramon Hernandez... when a 12-year old, with limited baseball knowledge asks why the catcher is so lazy, well, there's your answer.
(Dis)Honorable mention goes to:
Mike Dejean
Benitez
Tejada
Timlin
Mathews
Glenn Davis
Matt Albers
Eaton
Jerry Hairston Jr
Gibbons
Matos
Luis Hernandez
Jorge Julio
Rodrigo Lopez
Daniel Cabrera
Albert Belle. Hated him before he became an Oriole, then absolutely despised him when I watched him quit during the game at the yard against Cuba.
He took three straight strikes without moving the bat from his shoulder. If I remember correctly, he was making a lot of noise about having to play the Cubans in the first place, then showed his gutless attitude by tanking it.
I hate to admit it, but, I booed Lee May when he couldn't hit his weight.
Roch - you did say "Orange and Black" so I would have loved to boo Barry Bonds (hate hate hate him).
Big Bill - nice call, I think we all did...
I don't "boo" my own players...I'm just not that kind of fan. But, the players I have cursed the loudest from the privacy of my own home are no doubt Armando Benitez & Jorge Julio....'cause they were terrible. Too many heartbreaking losses between them to count.
Sidney Ponson
I love the O's, but their was one player I booooed constantly because I felt he was the worst player ever was Luis (sp?) Matos. He was just an awful player, did not hustle, struck out sooo many times, I just cannot stand him.. I may have booooed Millar and Hernandez towards the end of last season after grounding into more DP's than any team should for an entire season.
Ramon Hernandez
Jay Gibbons
Jay Payton
Ty Wigginton
Aubrey Huff
Luke Scott
All of these players have lacked consistency, were overpaid, and under-produced in their tenures, past or present.
Oriole Jim,
thanks for the scouting report on Dumba$$_oriole. He is exactly who I thought he was - a gutless whimp.
Schoolman,
Checked in at PitchFX to increase my bog-cred by adding information to Nolan's first hit. Mahay surrendered the hit in the seventh inning on a 1-1, 91.8 mph four-seemer that was slightly inside; Nolan beat out a grounder toward the middle of the infield and was quickly erased on a double play, Zaun making the second out at first.
Does anyone believe, as I do, that the Orioles, by introducing several promising Baby Birds this year, have made strides toward re-establishing Baltimore as a destination for free agents who look for a chance to play on a winner? Remember, it will take a financial commitment as well as a changing perception of the Orioles as a franchise closer to competing. We are clearly not the destination for someone who wants to be in the 2010 playoffs, but we may do nicely for a player willing to sign with a team that is going in the right direction.
This off-season we'll find out how hard Andy's foot is pushing on the accelerator to determine how fast we are traveling in the right direction. One good signing will help beget another ... .
My Dad and I have a proud history of booing relief pitchers. Our "favorites" were Timlin, Slocumb, Matthews (fondly known as Frumpy in my house), Charlton, and Drabek. Ah those were the days...
Armando Benitez - no question. Hanging his third best pitch to Tony Freakin' Fernandez (what a waste of an epic performance by Moose); drilling Martinez and starting The Brawl; just everything about his $$$$-arm / $0.10 head drove me nuts.
Which Oriole have you booed longer and louder than anyone else?
Peter Angelos.
If you have a below-average team payroll, a below-average spring training site, and below-average player training facilities at your home ballpark, then you're probably going to have a below-average team.
Seriously. Get that.
Until you do, you're not getting a dime from me.
Roch,
Given that the Andy MacPhail has said he doesn't want to part with good, young pitching prospects in trades, and our history of not being able to sign
top free agents, how realistic is it for the team to show measurable improvement in 2010 except through (hopefully) internal growth and development of current roster players? Keep in mind that we finished 39 games behind NY, and their history suggests they won't be standing pat this off season (perhaps swapping Jason Bay for Johnny Damon whose contract expires).
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No matter who they sign or acquire, they'll need the young pitchers - plus Jones, Reimold and Wieters - to progress. Going backward will be a killer. - Roch
Well Brummie, it looks like you have been outted more times than David Letterman!!!
Who isn't rooting for the Angels & the Twins? It's a no brainer... if there is a baseball God, they win.
Booed the most? I assume you mean this year? Easy one. Pie, hands down, simply bec/ I don't usually boo any O's, but his OF play & base running was so dreadful most of the year, it made my hair hurt. A MLer should not make the blatant mistakes he did. He hustles, he tries hard, he did improve late in the year, but he still doesn't cut it long term for me. Also, it wasn't booing... more like yelling & cussing at him while watching on TV. Many here got on the bandwagon for Pie, but was there much else to root for once he started playing better? Really guys, when the team fell apart it only made him look better in comparison. Really...
With everyone healthy in ST , he should be taking a back seat. Your OF is set, Scott will DH, hopefully a big hitting 1B is signed or traded for, so where does Pie fit in? 4th or 5th OFer, playing maybe twice a week at most with Reimold or Jones getting a day off & or DHing... However, mark me down here & now as saying they should trade Pie this offseason, a clear case of selling HIGH. They need other things more than a 4th OFer, they have options to fill that role.
I tend to agree with you on the other possibilities & decisions although I have some large reservations about making Aubrey the regular 1B. Just not enough power for a power hitting position that is sorely needed here.
It's not really fair to rate Luke Scott a C. I think his streaky hitting skews our expectations of him. Even with his slumps, in 2009 he had career highs (in full season play) for HRs, RBIs, Avg., and walks and a career low in grounding into double plays. In other words, he performed about as well (if not better) than any of us should have expected.
As far as booing, it is no contest, but a tie:
*Ramon H because he usually didn't even have enough professional pride to run form home to first on a ground ball, and you could time him with a sundial if he did
*Sidney P for being a complete fool on and off the field. If he was a catcher instead of a pitcher, he would have been Ramon
I'd like to see Prince Fielder be a first timer next season. :) I think we'd have enough to offer the Brewers for him. They are stating they can't afford him next season, as it is. Maybe a package with Scott, Snyder and a couple of arms like Hernandez/Berken and Britton.
Could you imagine?
1. Roberts - 2B
2. Jones - CF
3. Markakis - RF
4. Fielder - 1B
5. Reimold - LF
6. Wieters - C
7. Bell - 3B
8. Wiggington - DH
9. Izturis - SS
Make a move like that and then you can possibly convince Lackey to get here with some $$$.
1. Lackey
2. Guthrie
3. Bergesen
4. Matusz
5. Tillman
Beef up the bullpen a little... You've got a really good team here.
Boog Powell - does that count? BBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOG!
Reggie Jackson - was the first player I remember in my youth who was a pompous @ss like most players are today.
Eddie Murray - was at a game at Memorial Stadium sitting in a from row box seat and he actually attacked a cameraman for Home Team Sports who was filming him sitting at the edge of the dugout. I booed louder than I ever had in my life the rest of that night whenever he was in sight. Have despised him ever since.
Albert Belle - hated him before we got him, hated him evem more after he sat home and counted all his money.
Aubrey Huff - briefly the year after the radio show incident. Mightily this past year.
Jack you hit the nail on the head with Rich Hill. He was drafted into the Cubs system, so someone has a special faith in him. He also won't admit that we basically acquired an injury prone excuse factory that got lit up in the AL. ARROGANCE!
My prediction is that the Orioles fail to sign a frontline starter this offseason. Andrew will dip his feet into the free agent pool just enough to make it seem the O's are active. But when all the decent pitchers sign somewhere else he will trash the free agent pitcher market to the media, saying that the pitchers were all mediocre or "they didn't want to come here anyways."
And he will feed lots of cream puff to the media and fans as well, just like last year, telling us that " We contacted John Lackey and gave him an honest offer. But he never returned our calls. We feel very comfortable that we did everything possible to sign the best free agent pitchers available."
Then, after it is all said and done, Rich Hill will land a spot in the rotation because ANDREW will think he is still an upgrade.
PAINFUL!
Melvin Mora. One of my least favorite players in years.
Where to start...
"Boom Boom" Buddy Groom, it seemed for a stretch he served up a HR to anyone.
Mike "It Gone" Dejean, see above
Ra "I moaned at his play" Hernendez, worst catcher I have seen a while.
Jorge "You Blow" Julio, cough up leads like he was taking a physical exam
Chris "I can't hit a" Singleton, I would grimace every at bat.
I've never booed an Orioles player in my life. I have too much love for the uniform to disrepect it that way. Certainly I've been disappointed or angry at many players over the years, but I would never boo my own team. It's like spitting on the American flag because it's being carried by an idiot.
Roch,
This one is easy....Manny Alexander. Mr. "I need more playing time so Cal Ripken move over". I.Don't.Think.So.
Michael
I don't think I've ever booed an Oriole on the field, not even Huff when he was introduced in the 2008 opening day ceremonies.
I'd have to say Aubrey Huff for the comments he made about Baltimore the other year and Felix Pie for making stupid mistakes that major league ball players should never make
Roch, a few names I’ve found boo-worthy/infuriating over the years: Terry Matthews, Sidney Ponson, Jeff Stone, Armando Benitez, Ken Gerhart, Daniel Cabrera “Disco” Dan Ford, Jeff Robinson, Glenn Davis, Manny Alexander, Sid Fernandez, Brad Pennington, Rocky Coppinger, Doug Jones, Rodrigo Lopez, Heathcliff Slocumb, Jason Johnson, Luis Matos, Ryan Minor, Jorge Julio, Jay Payton, Omar Daal, Javy Lopez, Steve Reed, Steve Kline, Jay Gibbons, Miguel Tejada, Ramon Hernandez, Russ Ortiz, Jamie Walker, Danys Baez (2007), Radhames Liz, Adam Eaton, Bob McCrory, Ryan Freel, Dennis Martinez. Of these, I might have to go with Benitez, for doing all he could to sink us in the playoffs.
Do non-uniform wearing O’s count? For that list, I have Peter Angelos, Edward Bennett Williams, Eli Jacobs, Syd Thrift, Jim Duquette, and front office Mike Flanagan (though Mike would never get booed as a player).
If you trade a couple of young pitching prospects (Arrieta, Britton) with a couple of hitting prospects (Snyder, Joseph) for Prince Fielder. You give Fielder an $18-$20 mill a year extension (he's worth it).
And then you sign Lackey to an overpriced contract. Realistically how many more serious holes that cost alot of money do you think we'd need to compete?
It's not many at ALL.
It's a 3rd baseman (Bell in a year). Shortstop (Izturis is fine for now). And Bullpen. We've got enough arms to do it.
You have to trade top talent to compete. Red Sox find a way to do it and still not be crippled every year. There is a part of me that would say give them Tillman instead of Arrieta. I know that's a nasty hit to take, but this is an everyday player with 40HR+, 120 RBI guy. That's worth a top flight pitching prospect and it means we turned the Bedard trade into an even bigger win overall.
Tillman will be great. No getting around that. But Prince Fielder is great EVERY day.
I am not ashamed to say that I booed Ray Knight-Lopez for argueing with the umpire way too long. No one came out of the dugout to help plead is case on the strike zone. I was at the end of a mediocre career and in a big time slump....oh that was his career.
Of course, I have used bad language in referring to: Sidney Ponson, Glenn Davis, Joey Belle, Danys Baez, Phil Regan, Dave Johnson when he gets on his MASN soapbox (Tom Davis really needs to control him), and Peter Angelos.
But NEVER Roch Kubatko!
Roch,
My vote goes to Mike Timlin, just awful. Was at a game vs. Oakland one time, Rocky Coppinger started, got shelled. O's came back from 10-1 deficit to take the lead late in the game only to have Timlin blow it. Grrrrrrr.
I have never booed an O. I have denigrated them under my breath when they have sucked it up. Such as Wiggy's propensity to pop up the first pitch.
I would think I've booed Ramon Hernandez for his lack of hustle. Jamie Walker for the propensity of home runs. The list could go on and on, but I think these two are my main ones.
Roch -
What players would you like the Orioles to sign or trade, realistically? Other than Mora and Baez, which players do you see being dropped from the roster (Were Lambert and Henn and others just brought in for the September/October months? or are they going to be at Norfolk?)
Thanks for the information!
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Most of the bullpen will be dropped. I'd like Jason Bay or Matt Holliday in left and Fielder or Gonzalez at first, but I don't see it happening. I'll take anyone at third who can supply some power, not be a defensive liability and is easily moved once Bell is ready. - Roch
I remember when I was a kid I booed reggie jackson. I went to a kid's b-day party when I was about 9 years old at Memorial Stadium. About 3-4 of us went up to him before the game to ask him for his autograph. Granted he was talking to a young lady in the stands, but his response ticked us off. He called over an usher to tell us to leave him alone since he was already busy talking to someone. I booed him like no other the rest of my life, especially when he left the Os.
Also, any word on the MASN fantasy baseball league prizes? I finished 3rd overall and it says I get a fan experience package including lunch w/Trembley. I thought for awhile the prize might be changed to a dinner with Amber....
I never booed an Oriole on the field, but if I had been there in '05 when Raffy returned from his steroid suspension, I probably would have made an exception.
Since other than Figgins, there is a lack of quality in the free agent class at 3rd, I would be willing to take a flyer on Blalock, or trade for Josh Fields (we wouldn't have to give up much), until Bell is ready. Who knows, we might catch lightning in a bottle with one of them. They aren't real old, and were really high draft picks. Aubrey is interesting at 1st, good glove, and glimpses of maybe growing into being a great hitter, and the power could possibly develop. Unless we can get Gonzales or Fielder and not have to give up our top tier young pitching...I'd rather go with the youngins, and spend money on a top tier starter, and a top tier relief pitcher.
CHA CHING another one in the books!
Last September, I made my annual trip to Camden Yards from Connecticut with my then girlfriend, now wife, and it was then that I proposed to her. We were in town for 3 games against the Rays, including a doubleheader the last day. It was the last game, and the O's had lost the first two. They were leading 5-1 in the 8th, when Simon started to tire. With 2 outs in the 8th Jamie Walker came in, and proceeded to hand deliver the game to the Ray's. Well after the final out, and yet another loss I walked down about 6 rows from our seats to the dugout, and let the entire bench know my displeasure for Jamie Walker, even demanding my money back for the blow up. That was the only time I ever "booed" one of my teams players. On the bright side, it was Minor League Appreciation night, and I was able to get Bergesen, and Wieters autograph. At least that is what I will take home from that dreadful series.
Names that come to mind over the years.
Dennis Martinez - Maybe out of frustration but he had a few good years (14-5, 3.32 in 1981) but then just fell apart the next 4 yrs. Although he won 16 the next yr his ERA jumped a run, then the following yrs he couldn't keep his ERA under 5.00.
Adam Eaton - ANYONE who followed the Phillies just a little bit knew he was a problem. One of those guys who blamed his performance on everything and everyone but himself. He simply had nothing left and wasn't someone I could ever root for.
Doug DeCinces - Not because he was bad but just because he was after Brooks. Throw in the fact he jumped ship (along with a bunch of Orioles back then, like Grich and Baylor) just made it worse. Not really justifiable but reality.
Gibbons - For a guy who really could only do one thing, hit homeruns he just came across as a PITA. He wanted to play OF even though he was way below average. He complained about DHing. He didn't want to learn how to play 1B. And then, he obviously was cheating. Just someone that I personally detest.
On the opposite side the one player I think got the shaft by the media and some fans was Eddie Murray. He showed up to play every day. Seldom said anything, even when Earl Weaver had a brain cramp and tried to play him at 3B. Players all seemed to respect him. He had excellent clutch numbers, played a solid 1B, and while not very fast (like Brooks) he was a very good baserunner. Should have played his whole career here.
never booed an oriole player. I have booed individual plays but never relentlessly booed a player.
Still think my Padres scenario works for both teams. Even if we cant get a Bay or Holliday it fills so many of our holes and a LF is easier to get than a closer or true power bat at 3B or 1B.
You say above that you would like Bay or Holliday; what do you do in the outfield if you sign one of them?
Last, if we traded a corner OF in a blockbuster deal, do you think they would insert Pie in left or center with Jones moving to left?
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Jones isn't moving, so they'd put Pie in left, but they're not trading Reimold either. He would have to move to 1B or DH if the Orioles signed a LF. - Roch
Hands down, it was Keith Moreland. Never forget how the O's traded for him late in '89, to give an offensive boost in the "why not" season, and he immediately said "I don't care if this team wins or loses, I am only here for a month", or something to that effect. I have never booed anyone, Oriole or otherwise, for on field performance, because I realize that even the worst player in the show, is eons better than I ever was, but an attitude such as Moreland's deserves whatever abuse gets heaped on it.
Well, I know this sounds idiotic but I'd boo Ernie Tyler. I was a little kid at Memorial Stadium, the O's were getting clobbered, and it was raining. So me and a friend moved down to the front row, and being idiot kids probably 10 years old we asked Ernie Tyler if we could have a ball. He just barked at us in a totally mean and grouchy way like we were spoiled brats or something. Obviously I realize now that they don't just give out balls, but I was a kid, and this guy had a ton of 'em! And he totally tore my head off for it! So naturally I thought (and still think!) it was stupid when he was lionized during Cal's streak. Boo to you, Ernie Tyler.
I can't believe I just said I'd boo Ernie Tyler. But I would!
Just a few numbers, Aubrey's year projected for 550 AB's, and Scott's year projected over 550 AB's (he missed a small chunk of the year with an injury). Aubrey 42 doubles, 24 hrs, 84 rbi. Scott 33 doubles, 30 hrs, 95 rbi. Food for thought.
Bobby Bonilla. His refusal to DH when his defense was hurting the team turn him off to me. My wife always thought he had a middle name that is not family friendly because that is all she ever heard.
Conversly, the most under the radar Oriole who I worshiped more than I should was Randy Milligan. I loved him, thought he was the bees knees.
Why is everybody wanting to sign Bay or Holliday and cast Reimold to the wolves? That guy has more heart and hustle than the rest of our team put together. I also think he has a ceiling of .290-.300 average with 30-35 homeruns. Why buy a bat for a position you already have covered why we have gaping holes in others? Our corner infield IS atrocious unlike our outfield.
Roch please explain this one to me?
Realistically, Bay and Holliday would never sign here anyway. We may be able to sign Figgins because he is not a prototypical 3rd baseman so teams like Red Sox will balk at signing him. We could try to sign Matsui for DH once the Yanks sign Vlad (who also won't come here) since he would already know Koji. That is where our dip into the Asian market could start to pay dividends. We could then move Scott to 1st in a platoon role with Snyder while we evaluate both of them.
Bell we could worry about if and when he is ready to come up. Roch, how good a prospect is Bell? Is he worth not blocking like Wieters? Heck we had Reimold and still chose to block him with Pie so I don't understand the reluctance to sign a 3rd baseman who would be decent. Can he play 1st after we realize Scott and Snyder are both unworthy of playing there every day? Sorry for all the questions but inquiring minds like mine want to know.
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I wouldn't say that Reimold was blocked. Pie was easily moved out of the way to make room, first for Montanez, and the Orioles didn't invest a lot in him. The Orioles wouldn't have traded Sherrill for Bell (and Johnson) if they didn't think he was the real deal. And not sure if Bell can play first. Don't think he's done it. - Roch
Freddie Bynum because he was just awful at SS and watching that ground ball go through his legs as we lost to the Jays was too much for me. Actually...I booed him at a AA game between Bowie and Harrisburg, which just shows you how much I can't stand him. Of course...he hit a home run off Matusz after that, but I try to only remember the good parts.
Roch,
Off topic, but this is something that has been bothering me for a long time - The O's really need to get rid of the Babe Ruth statue at the yard. It makes no sense to have a statue dedicated to a member of you most hated rival (or rivals, since he played for the Dead Sox, also).
So what that he grew up here? So did a lot of other great (and not so great) players. Al Kaline comes to mind. It just seems asinine to have a statue of someone who never played an inning for our team at the entrance of our park. Everytime I see it I just want to p!$$ on it.
It should come down and replaced with a statue of Brooks or Cal (preferrably Brooks). It might be superstitious, but I think it is our "curse of the Bambino".
Too bad the guys that stole the 8 didn't do us a favor and take that dumb statue also.
What do you and everyone else think about it?
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I'll always associate The Babe with the Yankees, but he was born here. I remember John Steadman pushing to have the ballpark named after Babe. I'm fine with a statue. He was ours before he wore pinstripes. - Roch
Doug from York, I was at that game too, couldn't believe Bynum jacked it out...one of the only bad pitches Matusz made that night.
i booed norm siebern. first how you trade jim gentile for norm siebern? siebern dropped a foul pop up in i think the 7th inning of a game that wally bunker up to that point had a perfect game. bunker eventually pitched a one hitter in that game which i think he may have lost. siebern was terrible.
Anyone,
Did Dave Trembley recently mention that he considers Hank Blalock a possible signing?
Dennis Martinez pitched while he was losing a battle with alcoholism. Dennis eventually defeated those demons and pitched effectively for many years after leaving Baltimore. Being an alcoholic does not immunize him from being eminently booable; however, I don't think fans were aware of a contributing cause of his ineffectiveness.
For the record, "El Presidente" was a beast with Montreal. Martinez amassed 245 wins in 23 seasons with the Orioles, Expos, Indians, Mariners, and Braves.
Here’s a wild suppose: Suppose Dennis Martinez had not been a prisoner of “demon rum” during his time as an Oriole, would he have won 300+ games and a place in the HOF?
Schoolman –Did you cover Dennis as an Oriole? Was his drinking widely known, or did reporters keep his condition under wraps?
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Dennis was before my time as a reporter. - Roch
TWO WORDS ?
MIKE DEJEAN
I have to say this new postseason schedule blows. Stretching the division series to a week? REALLY? Is Selig trying to kill off the underdogs? Only one afternoon game? Wow, so much for watching baseball all day.
And having all the games on mediocre TBS instead of Fox and ESPN? I miss the days of the playoffs starting on Tuesday with a 1:00 game and Jon Miller doing the call. Not anymore.
WAY TO GO BUD!
What would it take to acquire Fielder? Would a package of Arrieta, Bergesen, D. Hernandez, J. Johnson, and B. Snyder do the trick? Or would Milwaukee require Tillman, Matusz, or both? They seem set everywhere except catcher and 3-5 in the rotation, and of course they'd need a new 1B if they trade Fielder.
I'd also like to see the O's get Harden long-term, and bring back Miggy and Bedard on one-year deals. Miggy's taking a lot of heat here, but he only wanted to push the FO to sign a competitive team. It'd go something like this:
1. 2B Brian Roberts S
2. 3B Miguel Tejada R
3. 1B Prince Fielder L
4. CF Adam Jones R
5. RF Nick Markakis L
6. C Matt Wieters S
7. DH Luke Scott L
8. LF Nolan Reimhold R
9. SS Cesar Izturis S
UC Chad Moeller R
UI Ty Wigginton R
UI Robert Andino R
UO Felix Pie L
1 Rich Harden R
2. Erik Bedard L
3. Chris Tillman R
4. Brian Matusz L
5. Jeremy Guthrie R
CL Chris Ray R
RP Koji Uehara R
RP Cla Meredith R
RP Jason Berken R
RP Wilfredo Perez L
RP Alberto Castillo L
RP Mark Hendrickson L
juan bell because hes juan bell
Mike nealis said:
ROCH HERE ARE SOME, IT WAS GREAT CHATTING WITH YOU ON OUR WALK TO THE RESPECTIVE SEATS THE OTHER NIGHT!!
ITs 2010, time to win again.
2010 a birdland odyssey.
Jones and Wieters the eastern division leaders.
Out with the tragic and in with the magic.
Last place finnishes are so yesterday.
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Same here, Mike. And I still think you look like Kevin Millar. - Roch
He does, doesn’t he.
My slogan would be “The Birds are back and it is about flockin’ time.”
As far as booing, I generally reserve that for bad ref calls and such. Oh yeah, and now for Teixeira to the point of hoarseness.
Roch,
Following up on your response to my earlier comment, isn't it unrealistic to think that everyone WILL progress. There's no guarantee that Bergesen will be as effective in 2010. The last report I read indicated that he can't even run now...some ten weeks after he took that ball off his leg. If we just go back to last off season, the only question most fans had concerning Guthrie was would the Orioles give him enough offensive support so he could turn his pitching stats into wins. Did anyone foresee him giving up the number of home runs he surrendered? I'm sure the club signed Izturis thinking that, with the offensive production they got in 2008, they could afford a light hitting shortstop who could stabilize the middle infield with his glove. [In the late 60s-early 70s, the Orioles could afford a Mark Belanger for the same reason.] No one imagined the combined drop off in production from Huff and Mora which made a weak hitting shortstop more noticeable.
Baseball, unlike the other major sports, is really a game of individuals within a team environment. When one looks at the current roster, the road to significant improvement is daunting to say the least. Improvement must start within the division because the unbalanced schedule requires the team to play almost one-half its games against AL East opposition. We were 26 games under .500 against division foes and, unlike what many people think, we're going after a moving target as the Red Sox and Yankees show no signs of curtailing the spending. To put our situation in perspective, IF the Orioles somehow got Adrian Gonzalez this off season and IF he was able to duplicate his stats this year with San Diego (40 hrs, 99 rbis) while competing in the AL East, would he be arguably any better than the third best first baseman...in our division when factoring in offense and defense...behind Teixeira and Carlos Pena, both All-Stars? [This analysis would put him ahead of Kevin Youkilis.] So when folks talk about Brandon Snyder, who is probably a good prospect, look at the talent gap.
If one looks at how the Orioles compare to the other 4 teams, how many positions would the Oriole player be ranked in the top two based on performance and not just potential? The two best positions are probably catcher (behind Victor Martinez) and right field (perhaps #1). Before anyone responds by saying I shortchanged Brian Roberts (and I love him as a player) let's look at how his stats compare with his peers. Brian's hr,rbi,average totals are 16/79/.283; Cano, 25/85/.320; Hill, 36/108/.297;
Pedroia, 15/72/.296; Zobrist, 27/91/.297.
This is going to be a Herculean challenge.
Oriole booed the longest and loudest - Disco Danny Cabrera
Tom C said:
Roch,
"Off topic, but this is something that has been bothering me for a long time - The O's really need to get rid of the Babe Ruth statue at the yard ... ."
“… So what that he grew up here? So did a lot of other great (and not so great) players. Al Kaline comes to mind. It just seems asinine to have a statue of someone who never played an inning for our team at the entrance of our park. Everytime I see it I just want to p!$$ on it.”
Tom C.
You better throttle back and cool your jets.
Before I accuse you of being an idiot with no sense of baseball history and no appreciation of the mythic image of Babe Ruth, I will politely say that you fail to recognize the pride that generations of Baltimoreans have taken in the knowledge that little Georgie Ruth was born here and became the "Babe" here.
When Jack Dunn signed Ruth to play for the International League Orioles, he also legally adopted him. Ruth’s teammates called him “Jack Dunn’s Baby,” and a clever “SUN” reporter Granito Kubatko started to refer to Ruth as “Babe” Ruth; thus bestowing the most famous nickname in American sports history and overall, a sobriquet to rival “Honest Abe” and “Father of His Country.”
As far as making a public nuisance of yourself: If you defile that statue, I will hire Drs. Michael Baden and Henry Lee, the renowned forensic experts whose testimony helped to convince the jury that O.J. was “not guilty.”
You will be identified, prosecuted to the highest extent of the law, and you will rue the day your mother bore you!
My gut tells me Josh Bell is going to be a good player, which means we're mainly shopping for 1b and pitching...lots of available money of this year's payroll.
My gut also tells me that if you let these kids take their lumps, that down the road most of the pitchers on the O's staff can be effective enough to compete in the AL East. Not including Hill on that one...he looks like a mess to me. Also not including Hendrickson, Baez, Albers... Face it, for the most part we're talking about throwing the 1st pitch for a good strike. Accomplish that small feat and you got a decent pitching staff.
That just simplifies everything, but the O's have a ways to go if they expect to compete w/ the YankSox.
The O's are far behind those teams at 1b/3b/sp 1-4/rp/closer. I know the O's are hoping Matuzs, Tillman can be a 1/2 w/ Guthrie ?, Who?, What? 3/5. Is that good enough to go against:CC/Burnett/Pettite snd Beckett/Lester/Buckholz? Not next year, I don't think. Maybe 2011 if some other pitching help emerges.
And in relievers the O's going against Mariano/Hughes/joba? and Papelbon/Bard/list goes on and on.
Wow.
That's competition, and the O's need to really step it up if the O's are going to catch the YankSox.
As optimistic as I am about the direction of the O's, there's along way to go.
Hot stove time !
Harvey,
That was one of the most insight appraisals of the current state of this team I have ever read. I agree with virtually everything you said which is why I think the team needs to focus on pitching. It’s an area we COULD compete in as early as next year.
I also think that it’s unreasonable to think that using the limited resources we have for a trade on Gonzales (he’s not going to be moved) or Fielder (great talent but a HUGE risk once he gets his big contract) will help as much as a Josh Johnson and Dan Uggla from FL. I would also like to see Jim Thome in the DH role.
It is unreasonable to think all of our young players will progress at the same pace but bringing real leadership on board from players that can make an honest contribution will go a long way to respectability and competitiveness.
Harvey,
Evidently you have not factored in V. Martinez' inability to throw out runners attempting to steal second; other than that, Victor is an adequate first baseman.
Rock, Your business is brisker now than it was during the season. Feel like booing the moves and the lineups our manager makes sometimes.
roch i'm amazed as to how much time some people write and how much research they do to get their point across
Harvey said: No one imagined the combined drop off in production from Huff and Mora which made a weak hitting shortstop more noticeable.
trust me harvey you would much rather have someone like izzy at short than a guy who could hit really well and only was average in the field.
harvey said...Baseball, unlike the other major sports, is really a game of individuals within a team environment.
you don't understand baseball real well. take a video camera to a game and replay plays and watch how each player in the field has a place to go when the ball is hit. in basketball you can one guy take the ball and the rest of the team move to the side and watch the one player go one one or one on five.
the reality harvey is baseball is 75%-80% pitching and defense. look at tampa when they went to the world series. no one hit .300 no one hit 30 home runs and no one knocked in 100 runs. they had 5 solid consistent starters, a good bullpen and played well in the field with timely but not great hitting. look how many teams texas had that hit great and finished down in the standings. this year they had pretty good pitching and even though hamilton missed a good deal of time and young missed time they were in the race until late in the year. yes the o's need to shore up first and third but if they can get 5 guys to go out and pitch well and a more consistent bullpen they can make it to the playoffs.
My loudest Boos were and will always be for Ramon "The Slug" Hernandez he was just a total waste for the O's. Coming in tied for a close second are Joey Bell and Glenn Davis,I just hate to see the natural great abilities these players had destroyed by bad attitudes.
Ten million dollar talent, with ten buck heads is what you seem to get in the free agent market fifty percent of the time. Thats why I urge the team to make trades for players like Derrick Lee, Asturbal Caberra,and Gavin Floyd. If a free agent reliever (or two), just happens to fall into our lap sure sign him, but only if he really wants to be here and lead the youngsters while we turn this ship around.
I boo'd the heck outta Chris Ray friday night!
I all for getting rid of the Babe Ruth statue. I find the whole Babe/Baltimore thing sort of contrived. If you mention Babe Ruth to anyone in the world, they would respond w/ NY Yankees. Of course they would. I would! And I was born in Baltimore.
There's got to another sort of Curse of the Bambino II that we can statistically correlate it to the erection of the Babe's Statue (and I don't know how I would write that any differently), and have the damn thing removed.
Roch,
It wasn't actually a "boo". I used three words to tell Pat Kelly what I thought of his OF skills after he completely butchered a fly ball to left. I know the whole section heard me, they all looked my way. I bet Pat heard me too, my seat was second deck left field two or three sections from the end ten or fifteen rows up when it happened. Felt kinda bad about afterwards. Now I contain myself, you might hear a muttered "get your head in the game" but that's it. I save my vitriol for the officials now, like during Sunday's Ravens game.
Baldy
JDB,
Wow, you're really full of yourself, aren't you? I have a KEEN sense of baseball history, thank you very much. I understand the importance of Ruth to the game. The fact remains, though, that he was a Yankee. He made his contribution to the game as a Yankee, and is identified as a Yankee.
The fact of him being born in Baltimore, or that he had a "famous" nickname, is no more significant than the fact that the sky is blue. And I would suspect that very few Baltimoreans, especially Oriole fans, take any kind of special pride that Ruth was a native of Charm City. Maybe seventy or eighty years ago people were proud of that - way before we even had a team. Should we be proud of Mark Texieria because he was born here?
He was a Yankee, and I hate everything that was, is, or ever will be Yankee. The statue should be of an Oriole. I know that I'm not the only person who feels this way.
I remember booing Danys Baez very long and hard 2 years ago... I think his crime was giving up a grand slam to Arod.
STEVE KLINE
what a waste of space
I all for getting rid of the Babe Ruth statue. I find the whole Babe/Baltimore thing sort of contrived. If you mention Babe Ruth to anyone in the world, they would respond w/ NY Yankees. Of course they would. I would! And I was born in Baltimore.
There's got to another sort of Curse of the Bambino II that we can statistically correlate it to the erection of the Babe's Statue (and I don't know how I would write that any differently), and have the darn thing removed.
To: jackdunn'sbaby
You may have a point regarding Martinez's defense although it didn't stop the Red Sox from playing him behind the plate. However, the fact is the guy has made the AL All-Star team three times (including 2009) and this year hit 20+ hrs, knocked in over 100 runs, and batted over .300...admittedly while playing first some games after coming to Boston. Based on performance and not just potential, one would have to say that he or Posada would be considered at the top of the AL East. I do believe Wieters will surpass both of them in the next 1-3 years. How happy would we be if Matt put up those kinds of numbers in 2010?
To: fkterp
You apparently missed the point regarding a number of my comments. Regarding Izturis, my point was that fans and sometimes teams fall into the trap of believing that things that are good will stay the same or improve from year to year. Izturis DID solidify the infield and was a huge upgrade from 2008.
However, because the team lost 30 or so home runs and 50-75 rbis from the previous year from Huff and Mora, it needed increased production from other positions. Izturis hit around .250 as a singles hitter in 400 plate appearances. That being said, the team probably got value from him for the price they paid.
Regarding my comment that baseball is a game of individuals, here's an analogy. No matter how good of an arm Joe Flacco has or how smart he is as a tactician, if he has a poor offensive line and is running for his life every Sunday, he won't be successful. In baseball, when Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver or Jim Palmer had the ball in their hands, they singularly controlled the game. When Barry Bonds had his monster home run year, it was him against the pitcher. [His teammates for the most part were in the dugout.] When Nick Markakis is cutting down a runner with an outfield assist, it's just him against the base runner.
I agree with your comment about the importance of pitching and defense, but the game has changed. [Pitching is so important now because it's the single costliest position to fill.] While we all take notice of Sabathia's stats, the Yankees and Red Sox also win a lot of 11-7 games where their own pitching might have not been good that day, but they still pound you into submission with their bats. Would you be surprised to learn that the four teams competing in the American League post season now just happen to be the top four hitting teams (by average) in the league?
Joey (call me Albert) Belle and Glenn Davis.
I'm still booing D. Cabrera & every team that thought they could fix him.
Paul R--I must say that your report on Ernie Tyler, when you were a youngster, sounded like something straight out of Faulkner. It was uncomfortable to read, but you were being honest and giving us a first-person perspective.
I do wish that you and Ernie could get together today and he could toss a ball to you.
But, yea, I do recognize that as some sort of fantasy perspective.
As you know, life is full of foul balls, barking...and good stories.
I'd have to say the player I booed the most, along with the rest of the stadium, was Albert Belle.
I remember going to a game when he played for the O's where he struck out several times in the game and he didn't hustle to a ball that dropped into the outfield which directly led to run(s) scoring.
He was booed off the field after the inning ended, very loudly.
Jorge Julio for me. Would find myself throwing things at the TV time after time, thankful that the basement was fairly soundproof as I would use more than a few "expletive deleted"s. Not sure if I ever booed him on the field, but sure did my share while watching in that basement...
Bill G. said:
I all for getting rid of the Babe Ruth statue. I find the whole Babe/Baltimore thing sort of contrived. If you mention Babe Ruth to anyone in the world, they would respond w/ NY Yankees. Of course they would. I would! And I was born in Baltimore.
Tom C said:
JDB,
“Wow, you're really full of yourself, aren't you? I have a KEEN sense of baseball history … . “
“… He made his contribution to the game as a Yankee, and is identified as a Yankee.”
The fact of him being born in Baltimore, or that he had a "famous" nickname, is no more significant than the fact that the sky is blue. And I would suspect that very few Baltimoreans, especially Oriole fans, take any kind of special pride that Ruth was a native of Charm City. Maybe seventy or eighty years ago people were proud of that - way before we even had a team. Should we be proud of Mark Texieria because he was born here?”
Bill G.,
Babe’s connection to Baltimore is very real and important to the history of baseball in Baltimore. The early years of Babe’s life are compelling. His father couldn’t, or didn’t have time, to keep young George in line; he placed his son in the St. Mary’s Industrial School, a reform school for wayward boys. It was at St. Mary’s that Ruth attracted the attention of Jack Dunn who came to watch George H. Ruth hit a baseball farther than God originally intended man to hit a baseball.
As far as women (who were created from a rib – “a cheaper cut,” according to Archie Bunker), God intended them to play softball, except during “WWII, the big one,” another Bunkerism.
Tom C.,
For quite some time, I have suspected that, as I wrote more and more posts, I was becoming more and more full of myself. I came to terms with this condition because I know that many students anxiously await my posts, especially the long-form posts, which are, on ocassion, quite informative and sometimes they are amusing in the style of Kubatko and Crystal with a dash of Steven Wright.*
Also, I received a disturbing “atta boy” from Brummie for taking you to task; so, I am resolved to soften any future comments addressed to you in order to distance myself from Lord Brummie who, evidently, has had an ongoing feud with you.
Statues of Brooks and Cal already adorn OPACY; are you concerned that Babe’s statue resides in a more prominent location than the statues of Brooks and Cal? If so, why not campaign to rectify this situation by rearranging the locations of the three statues, rather than trying to marginalize the greatest player and most magnetic personality in sports.
Visit the house where Babe was born and the Babe Ruth Museum; if your mind isn’t changed after your visit, get back to me. Babe Ruth is “Beyond Baseball.”
P.S. Almost forgot to comment on your question about Teixeira. I'm surprised! With your keen knowledge of all things baseball, surely you understand the Teixeira had a chance to come home and put this franchise on his back and lead the return to competitive respectability. He went where he would be paid handsomely and where he would get to play on the "Big Stage." At OPACY, there will be no graven images of this guy who turned his back on the team of his childhood. I need to say nothing, at this point, about the stark differences between these two players and their importance to Baltimore. Furthermore, contrast the attitude of Joe Mauer who was born in St. Paul, and he is an odds-on favorite to stay with the Twins, even if he takes less money to do so.
*I just bought Wright's autobiography; unfortunately, he was forced to write an unauthorized version because he refused to cooperate with the author.
I also don't typically boo players. 99% are trying their best. One person who was an exception to my rule. Earl Williams. They guy showed no effort and obviously didn't care. What made it worse was the package of players we gave up for him.
I usually don't boo, and I really don't boo Orioles...except Jose Bautista. I'm not even sure I remember why I hated him so much. I was pretty young when he had his brief stints with the O's. The best I can remember is that the team totally over-hyped him, then every time I saw him pitch he totally sucked.
I may have considered booing poor Manny Alexander. It was a similar reason; people hyped him a being such a great SS that they should move Cal. I seem to remember that the first time they started him at SS, and Cal at 3rd, Manny made 2-3 errors and struck out in all his ABs. Cal probably had a HR, or at least hits and fielded flawlessly. In retrospect it seems like both these guys were victims of hype, which probably wasn't fair to them.
I definitely considered booing Pie several times this year with his boneheaded defense. However I was at his cycle game. I was mad early on when he did something stupid on defense, but I guess he made up for it with the cycle.