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Please please please do NOT sign Marquis. Yes he had a decent win total in Colorado last year, but when is the last time he was even league average in k/9, E.R.A, Hr allowed, etc. He would not be a good addition to our SP staff that struggles with all of the former.

They will sign who ever comes the cheapest.

Many people have said that Peter Angelos does not mingle in the day to day operations of this club. If that is the case, why is there budget limited to cast off or players who they do not have to committ long term too?

If setting the payroll so extremely low each year is not mingling, then what is?

Sorry Roch, I maintained my positive attitude as I promised until I saw the direction this club took at the winter meetings. They are not serious about placing a winning team on the field....unless the players can come cheap.

How does trading for Millwood show that we want only cheap players? Ray would have been under team control for pretty much the league minimum, while we will pay 9 million of Millwood's salary.

And it makes sense in the short term to go dumpster-diving, and buying low on talent that has been hurt/not performing well to see if we can't get a few rentals to produce adequately while we field a winning team. No one expects us to win next year, or at least compete throughout the entire season. If you do then you need to shade your expectations and just enjoy watching a very young team grow and blossom.

orange crayon jesus said:
Some people want to trade Pie, who last year was by far the best O’s outfielder by UZR rating, and is the only one who can back up every position, and who had a 122 OPS+ in the second half.

Not me OCJ........I want him starting in centerfield......Move Jones to left, I understand he played there often in the minors.

While we're at it, let's keep cleaning out that O's cesspool known as our bullpen. We have started, addition by subtraction ( Ray )....Now if Andy wants some addition my vote is for Valverde, from whats available.

Innings eater, innings eater, that's all you hear from the media. They aren't worth a tinkers dam unless those innings are quality ones. Giving up 5,6,7 runs every time they're "eating" those innings is ridiculous, but by golly we'll roll out the orange carpet for them.

Chris may be right. We shall see. The club has claimed that they will step up again when they are close to contending. Right now I agree w/ the current approach of creating a nucleus of young players then supplementing through free agency. I think next year will tell us alot.

I love the Millwood signing. I hope he does well and desires to stay with us for a few years.

I would also like to see us sign Bedard for an incentive laden contract. I think he will return to his previous abilities back in Baltimore.

Any chance we trade for Sherrill to be our closer now that the Dodgers don't want him anymore?
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They don't want him? We were hearing at the meetings that he wasn't available. LA execs shot down that rumor. But we'll see. - Roch

Roch,

In the "recovering from injury" category, I've read in multiple places that there's a very strong possibility that Chien-Ming Wang may be non-tendered. If you were Andy, would you take a shot?

On a semi related note, typing "non-tendered" made me think of Gary Thorne and "non-decisioned". Weird.
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Depends what kind of deal he's looking for. He could be worth the risk, but some baseball people think he'll never return to his previous form. - Roch

Besides Bedard who else is out there thats willing to take a 1 year incentive laden contract that would make sense 4 the Os?? Duchscherer,escobar,Myers??????
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I'm told the Orioles haven't shown any interest in Duchscherer. And looks like Sheets, at least for now, wants a bigger contract. But as this whole dance plays out, some guys could suddenly come into play. - Roch

While Marquis can produce some brilliant outings, they are few and far between. When he isn't "on," he can get blasted and is downright painful to watch. I think the money would be better spent in bringing back Bedard with an incentive laden contract. He's a risk, but when he's healthy, he is a consistently fine pitcher. It would be great to see him back in Baltimore, where he experienced a lot success in the not too distant past, even if we have to wait a month or so into the season to see him work. Bedard was the second ace the O's lost in this decade, and having him back might ease the pain of Mussina's entering the Hall of Fame wearing pinstripes.

When Buck Martinez first started doing the color I couldnt stand him. When I read the news he was leaving, I was actually really really disappointed. I came full circle on Buck. Hes an amazing color analyst and I think he did an amazing job. Im really sad to see him go back to his old team. I kinda hoped he would coach the Os if the opportunity ever came up. I wish him the best and hope he makes his way back to Baltimore in some regard. I will always be a fan of his insights.

Roch-
If the Sox have a public offer out there for $15 million for Chapman, don't you think if the O's were not serious players, then they would back out? Do you really think they may not throw 20 at him and see what happens?

Also, everyone knows now that the O's really want to bring Bedard back, almost to the point that they are hoping his medical checks out. Rumors say Bedard actually wants to come back to Baltimore. Do you think Guthrie might be on his way out in a trade?
Bedard, Millwood, Bergy, Matusz, and Tillman actually might make many drool when you know the other arms that are right there waiting.
I guess when it was put out there that the Padres want to add a veteran starter to the fold in a Kooz trade.

That would be pretty cool. Here's to 81+.
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They're supposed to meet again with his reps next week, so they're not backing out. They'll keep going with him until his price gets too high - if it does. The earlier projections have definitely been lowered, so that's encouraging. If the Yanks and Sox don't get into a bidding war and blow it up, the O's remain in play. As for Guthrie, I think they'd need another vet before they'd consider dealing him. - Roch

I think many O's fans share this same opinion, we want Bedard back.

Forget the other free agents. Begin the season with:

Millwood
Guthrie
Bergeson
Matusz
Tillman

Then let Bedard push for a spot when he's healthy.

I predict that Guthrie would get bumped, and will eventually become the closer. I know it sounds crazy, but he has the 'make-up' Trembley always refers to and he has great stuff.

Hey Roch,
Any chance the Orioles try for Noah Lowry or Mark Mulder
I know Lowry hasn't pitched since mid 2007 but he could be the steal of the 2010 Free Agent Market.
Well Mulder is Mulder he don't need to be explained.
He is good when he is healthy.
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"When he is healthy" is the key phrase. Haven't sensed any interest in either, but not like I'm aware of every pitcher they've discussed internally. - Roch

Chris, really give it a rest. How much really got done across ALL of MLB at the winter meetings? What did the Red Sux do? Nothing. What did Anaheim do? Nothing. Sheesh the offseason just started.

A Fan with delusions of Grandeur said:

Innings eater, innings eater, that's all you hear from the media. They aren't worth a tinkers dam unless those innings are quality ones. Giving up 5,6,7 runs every time they're "eating" those innings is ridiculous, but by golly we'll roll out the orange carpet for them.
December 11, 2009 5:43 PM

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Seriously, because a 3.67 ERA is very indicative of giving up 5, 6 or 7 runs a game. Millwood had a better ERA than Lackey last season, AHEM, in the same division.

Ar Dee said

It's been great reading your blog thru the meeting,so thanks for the info.
Pitching is the main priorty and need for the o's, so I'am gladfor the trade. Millwood will be a better fit than Lackey and will be gone by 2011 or traded in July if (1) of the young onesforces his way up. Next need is defensive corner infielders. People keep saying Uggla for third, he can't coversecond hows he going to play third,also probably doen't have the arm or the Marlins would've used him there. He would make a nice D.H. but not a third baseman.
Move Remoid to first isn"t a good idea it would mean sending him to the minors to learn how to play the position. Remember J.Lopez!!

The worst move the F.O. could make will be letting Wiggenton be the first or third baseman. That will not help the pitchers at all.

Well O Great One what hole gets fill next. Maybe a better idea after Saturdays non-tenders?

I hope they Sign Erik Bedard even if he has to sit for a month or so its worth it.. If bedard can come back and pitch like he did, With millwood Guthrie bedard and Brad Bergesen and Brian Matusz/ or tillman. You can make the playoffs with that Granted 2 for are starters are going to be rly young but Brad Was rly rly good And Matusz Posted a 4.63 era in 8games thats not bad..

If i was Andy id make these signings

Sign Bedard for 1/2years for 2.50mill a year

I would also jump all over Troy Glaus hes a power 3rd basemen and he's got a good glove sign for 1year with a op for a 2nd 3mill a year.

for 1st base idk maybe you give a young guy a chance like Michael Aubrey he dident do bad at the end of last year.

I would also Sign mark hendrickson and another guy like Will Ohman, Joe Beimel, Chad Cordero. So what do u guys think

Roch, O's fans were told "We'll grow the arms and buy the bats!"They needed a legite rotation,not a tryout!The bullpen needs help yet and who is the Big Bat?Who is the 30 plus cleanup hitter they need, and who is the closer?Still early yet, but who are they now eyeing?Roch -On!

IF the Orioles are so interested in trading for an arm, why wouldnt they try for a guy that Im sure a team is trying to unload and is willing to eat a considerable amount of that contract. Im speaking of a guy like Barry Zito or Derek Lowe?

The Giants have to worry about siging Lincecum and Cain to long term deals at some point and it wont come easy or cheap. And Lowe is definetly being shopped and if nothing is left in the tank to start, it allows him to go back to what he was doing before he was a starter and thats close.

Im all for bringing back Bedard and taking a flyer on Ben Sheets. They arent gonna get any lucrative offer. I doubt if 3 teams are interested in the two of them.

Steve A.,

I don't think you have to worry about Mussina entering the Hall of Fame wearing pin stripes. How many World Series championships does he have? Cy Young Awards? No-hitters? League championships in wins, strikeouts or ERA?

Cue the crickets.

Mussina was a very good pitcher, and at times an excellent pitcher, but he was not one of the all-time greats, and thus he won't be enshrined in Cooperstown.

That said, I'm totally with you on bringing Bedard back. Let's make it happen!

I would love to see Bedard pitching for his old team. Hey Who knows?
He might be ready by May and lights out for a couple of months. Then He would be dealt at the deadline to a contender and land a couple of prospects.
Win-Win for both Bedard and O's!!
Cheers!

Now that the furor has died down some, let’s take a look at our surprising new TOR starter, Kevin Millwood. Let’s see, on the one hand we have Scott from PA and our stalwart Ryan claiming that he’s worth 8-10 wins over last year (whoa, dudes!). At the same time, Tracy frets that he has a 4+ ERA and he’s not even in the AL East. Dr. Tom helpfully points out that Kevin’s ERA last year was significantly aided by a low BABIP (Welcome aboard, Dr. Tom! A voice of reason in the darkness!) And lots of people hate to see Chris Ray go, which is what makes us fans, I suppose.

Here are the pieces:

Others here have capably handled the Chris Ray part of the equation: serious arm injury, violent delivery, live arm but not great control (consistently a BB/9 of 4), closer experience a while back when he was good, and, let’s not forget, a nice guy. It’s certainly possible that he could be a useful part for the next three years in TX if he recovers fully. But he’s not a closer now and may never be again, which makes him . . . drum roll . . . a right-handed relief pitcher. Hmm, let’s go to bb-ref and look up his comparables: They’re people like Ernie (don’t call me Hector) Camacho and Darren (don’t call me Larry) Holmes. And Hal Reniff and Rich Loiselle. What? You’ve never heard of them? Me neither.

Like others here, I have good feelings about Chris, and certainly wish him very well against all other teams, especially in the AL East. But as things stand now, he’s the definition of a replaceable part.

The Orioles also gave up a PTBNL Rule 5 draftee. In case no one has noticed, these are often returned for a small cash sum set by the CBA to be what they’re worth, which is very little. Next.

Money! The O’s over the course of a full year will pay about 8 million to have Kevin instead of Chris. Okay, now we’re talking about something. That’s significant cash, even to a big league ball club. If you think it isn’t, look at how eager Texas was to get rid of a starting pitcher who averaged 12 wins and 188 innings for four straight years. It would be like the Orioles getting rid of . . . well, the Orioles don’t have a pitcher anywhere near that, so it’s hard to compare. You’d have to go back to, hmm, not Erik, not Rodrigo, hey, I’m guessing Mussina . . . . Yup.

Now, I love Mike and think he may very well belong in the Hall of Fame. Mike was a MUCH better pitcher than Kevin. But you get my point. Starting pitchers who eat lots of innings every year don’t grow on trees. First, it’s hard for starting pitchers to stay healthy for four straight years. Second, they have to be pretty decent to pitch into the 6th and 7th innings consistently. DCab, for instance, in five years with the O’s pitched more than 180 innings exactly once: in 2007, when he was left to get his brains beaten in and lost 18 games.

So what do we think of this Millwood dude? Let’s see, in his 12-year career as a regular, he’s averaged 188+ IPs per year. AVERAGED. He’s hit 200 five times and has come close two other times. The Orioles as a TEAM have had exactly three seasons of 200IP since 2000: Sir Sydney in ‘02, Rodrigo Lopez in ‘05, and Jeremy last year (a cool 200 on the nose – nicely done, lad!). Millwood’s done that all by himself. CHONE projects him for 177 IP this year. Hey, I’ll take it.

Okay, so we know that Millwood takes the ball and that he’s decent. So far so good. But how good is he? Well, his career OPS+ is 109. That’s Mike Cuellar. Mike Boddicker is 108. Dave McNally is 106. Anybody here object to picking up late-era Mike Cuellar in exchange for Chris Ray? I didn’t think so.

Now, on the flip side, is Millwood 35? Yes. On Christmas Eve no less. Merry Christmas, Kevin! (Hey, he’s from NC; he’s probably not a Kwanzaa guy.) Could his arm fall off tomorrow? Sure. Have his peripherals dropped recently? Yup: Even with his “great” year last year, his SO/BB was down under 2 for the second time in 3 years. Not good. And despite his other good numbers, his FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) was almost half a run over the league average, which is pretty scary. Would I want Andy on the FA market picking up this guy for 9 mill and losing a couple of draft picks? Hmm, maybe not. But if Millwood can stabilize the rotation, be a positive veteran presence, etc., and then we can flip him at the deadline or let him leave as a Type A, I’m totally fine with this, even if he continues to give dull-as-ditchwater interviews.

I’m constantly being warned that Wins Above Replacement for pitchers should be interpreted with caution, so everybody should wear protective eye gear for this next part: Millwood’s average WAR is about 2 per year. (Scott and Ryan must count these things differently, but you can’t do that. Go to the back of the class, guys.) For comparison, Nick didn’t have a great year in 2009 and came out at 2.2 WAR, which was worth 9.9 million (he’s a steal, by the way). Do we really care whether Kevin is a .5 WAR next year or a 3.5? I don’t. Not much. I care that he pitches 175 innings (prorated for however long he’s here) and that he’s not Adam Eaton. I’ve eaten my gruel and now I’m ready for cereal. Next year bacon and eggs, okay Andy?

In sum, there’s only one reason to dislike this move, and that’s the money. For everyone who’s complaining that Andy and Peter only care about the bottom line, the Orioles just spent over 8 million dollars for MAYBE two wins. So please find another drum to beat, drones. For those who think this was overspending for a pointless cause, I’d say you have a fair argument. For most of the rest of us, this was a very reasonable move for a team with money to spend that’s starting to expect better results in the win column and is looking for a decent inning-eater with intangibles.

jdb: Long-form posts? Moi?

Roscoe: Just a superb post about Dempster-diving. We're SO lucky to have you. And you're absolutely right about Ann Marie and change ups. It's because she has trouble keeping her hands still, right AM?

Craig Sans Ellipses: I'm totally with you on Buck Martinez. I liked him a lot and am very sorry to see him go. Godspeed to you, Mr. Martinez, and thank you very much for your excellent service.

Good morning from humid Sydney, Roch and all. [Awaiting smart arse comment from JackDunn about how evil has been spotted in Syd.]

Even though I am on a weekend get away, I had to get my daily dose of Roch and the O's.

Marquis is the classic definition of an NL reject. He can survive in the NL but in the AL he would get lit up.

I would take Guthrie over Marquis anyday.

Chris is right, if Marquis comes cheap, he will suddenly be a great fit according to the front office.

We are resorting to quantity over quality. Bring in as many guys as we can and hope a few catch fire and dominate.

This is Birdland.

LOL

If the O's add another pitcher, don't you think Guts will be going in a trade?

Millwood
?
Matusz
Bergy
Tillman

OR do you think the O's would send Tillman back to AAA and keep Guthrie?
How about Guts for closer?

Roch you got back just in time to freeze your laptop off.
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It would feel worse if I was coming back here from sunny Orlando (the site of next year's meetings). As for Guthrie, they won't trade him just for the sake of trading him. It would have to be in the right deal. And MacPhail mentioned how it will be nice getting all those innings from him as well as Millwood. We'll see. I just hope wins are attached, too. - Roch

What are the chances of going after Hank Blalock?
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Like you've heard, he's on the radar. He's one of the options at first base. - Roch

Funny how when MLBTR has something positive to say about the O's everyone is shoving it in my face.

But when Chris provides an article saying that the O's were LOSERS at the winter meetings, suddenly MLBTR is unreliable and not a real source.

This is the fanbase in Birland. LOL

Chris said:
They will sign who ever comes the cheapest
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9 million for millwood 1 year is cheap? Please come up with some new material Chris!

Its not even mid-Dec yet and people are already hammering the club about being cheapskates and sitting on their hands? What would you have them do? Sign a bunch of mediocre players to big contracts and block the potential stars we have in the minors? Other than Lackey there isn't a free agent that makes any sense. And 5 yrs 85MM is a bad investment for any 30-something pitcher let alone someone with a history of injuries. We don't need another OF and AD and Prince aren't being traded. Except in the minds of all the "experts" on this site that think that AD, Prince, or AP can be gotten for a package of Berken, Pie, and Wigginton.

I like the idea of Marquis instead of Bedard for one very important reason and that is this. How many times over the last few years have we seen this bullpen be overused because a starter could not make it through the 6th inning? How many relievers in recent history have the O's had who either tired and seen their ERA balloon in August and September from fatigue or ended up with arm problems. No matter the team, an effective bullpen is one that is not over used.

Bedard, when healthy, would mean three of five days you have a pitcher that you are watching the number of pitches or signs of stuggles for the younger guys. A Marquis, Millwood and Guthrie rotation means that you have three guys that can get you into the 7th or maybe the 8th on a routine basis. This does not mean the O's will be better in May or June but definitely means they are better in August and September. And how have the O's been recently in those months?

Signing Marquis is better than signing two good relievers if those relievers are spent by August, at probably the same cost. It would also mean maybe the O's would not need a 7 man bullpen all year, adding depth to the bench and allowing a little more rest for guys like Reimold, Roberts and Markakis to be a little more fresh in those months the O's typically struggle. Not to mention it would allow a Tillman, Hernandez and/or Arrieta to spend the year in Norfolk building arm strength and confidence for when Marquis and Millwood leave for bigger paydays in 2011.

Roch will the O's offer a multi year deal to Sheets? And how intrested are they in garland?
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I think they're less inclined to pursue Garland now that they have Millwood. And they'd be much more interested in a one-year, incentive-heavy deal for Sheets. - Roch

Did you see the article at YahooSports by Steve Henson rating the O's as losers. He recommend the Birds get serious about Beltre for 3rd. Would I be totally dreaming of this coming to fruition?? Your best guess please.

Thanks for the wonderful job you did covering the Winter Meetings. I read your posts daily but usually don't post myself. Anyway, thanks again.
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Thanks! For now, I don't rate Beltre as a serious consideration because he wants a bigger deal than the Orioles are likely to give a third baseman with Bell waiting in the wings. Plus, he wants to play on the West Coast, or for the Red Sox (apparently). I think the Yahoo rating is a bit harsh. Kevin Millwood for Chris Ray isn't bad. Did he expect them to do more at these meetings? Maybe they weren't a big winner, but one of the losers? Come on. - Roch

fan since 69 said:

Did you see the article at YahooSports by Steve Henson rating the O's as losers. He recommend the Birds get serious about Beltre for 3rd. Would I be totally dreaming of this coming to fruition??
_______________________________

Who is Steve Henson and YahooSports? Since when is he an expert? In all honesty Steve Henson has as much credibility as anyone who posts on this blog; including me. All it is is one man's opinion and nothing else. When true baseball people say Millwood was a good deal for Baltimore and that Beltre wouldn't be because of his asking price and years sought, with Bell in the wings, I'll take their word over someone name Steve Henson at YahooSports.

As far as the comment left by "Chris" claiming the Orioles will sign whoever comes cheapest, does that count the $9 million they'll be paying Millwood? The $66+ million for Markakis? For BRob? The excessive money spent on the recent draft picks? Would you rather they pay a ridiculous sum for someone now and wind up not being able to afford to keep Matusz, Wieters, Jones et al down the line? The same complaining now will be the first in line complaining if the club loses the aforementioned players because they signed a player or two now at a ridiculous price.

Roch-

I think we should put the Actual Markakis contract up.

Markakis has a 17.5 Million option on year 7, so technically the deal could be for 83.5 Million overall.

I don't defend the O's spending habits often, because I think we should look more at what their yearly payroll is, and not how much they are on the hook for, overall.
But we should still get the facts right.

YOU GOTTA SIGN MARQUIS!

The guy has pitched for a playoff team every single season of his career. We need a little bit of good karma around here. Lets get him for that, and that alone!

Brummie/Chris/Jack/Brian/whatever other name your going by today,

No one said MLBTR was not creditable, they said the person that posted on Yahoosports was, because that is where the story came from, MLBTR just posted it. Get your stories straight, and you say your a journalist.
Its amazing how all these alter egos say exactly the same things, use the same nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs, and adjectives. Brummie is just trying to build up support for his arguments and since no one shares his opinion, he has to create them.
Reason we don't need to go after Holliday or Bay, our outfield is full. Reimold IMO will be as good as Holliday and in a full year will put up similar numbers. Holliday's numbers come from Colorado and hitting with Pujols. Lackey is not wanted simply because he wants a 4 or 5 year deal and MacPhail doesn't sign pitchers for more than 3 which most agree with him. 4 years from now, the Yankees will regret giving Burnett and CC those long term deals, and Atlanta along with San Fran are both regretting signing Lowe and Zito respectively and are trying to get rid of them.

Henson at Yahoo Sports also had the Yankees as winners. The same team that traded their #2 prospect for a platoon player in CF. A guy that Girardi said will hit EIGHTH against lefties. So what does he know anyway?

Roch-
They say that the O's got Millwood for Ray and Cash, and the Rangers are eating 3 million of Millwoods deal. From my understanding, the O's threw a million BACK to them with Ray, so that is a net of 10 Million the O's are on the hook for. 9 to KM and 1 to Texas.

So, HOW is spending 10 Million on a 35 yr old veteran starter, in a year where many don't think you are ready to compete, cheap? And I doubt they done. If Harden just got 6.5 +incentives, Bedard is going to grab something close to that.
I for one am actually encouraged by what the O's are doing.

If they get their payroll up to 65 or 70 for 2010, then they are starting to get near that 100 Million mark that most playoffs teams seem to be at. (And where they used to be a decade ago)

Wouldn't you agree?

Brummie_Oriole said:
Funny how when MLBTR has something positive to say about the O's everyone is shoving it in my face.

But when Chris provides an article saying that the O's were LOSERS at the winter meetings, suddenly MLBTR is unreliable and not a real source.

This is the fanbase in Birland. LOL

December 11, 2009 8:21 PM

----------------

Brummie,

I just want to point out, as someone has said before on one of the last entries. MLBTR did NOT provide an article saying that the Orioles were losers. It was some guy from yahoo. And the way you talk about the "fanbase" it seems like you are on the outside of it. I don't think anyone has ever officially asked you this question before so I am wondering. Are you an Orioles fan? Because sometimes, It does not seem like you are.

No to Marquis. While he might eat innings, he is not a very good clubhouse presence.

Absolutely NO to Bedard as a starter. Not a good clubhouse presence and is always injured. He might make a good LH specialist or even alternate closing duties with Koji.

Ben Sheets is asking for $12 mil a year. Like Bedard, he is always injured.

Kelvim Escobar might be worth a look. Nasty stuff, but is coming off a torn labrum.

Brummie_Oriole said:
Funny how when MLBTR has something positive to say about the O's everyone is shoving it in my face.

But when Chris provides an article saying that the O's were LOSERS at the winter meetings, suddenly MLBTR is unreliable and not a real source....
---------------------------
Brummie, Just before I jump squarely with both feet on what you've written here (okay, maybe not squarely this time, in the spirit of the season and all), I'm going to [stop the presses] agree with you about something!

Yes, I like Guthrie over Jason Marquis too. I recommend everyone getting excited about Marquis to take a deep breath and head over to Baseball Reference for a reality check (link below).

The skinny: Jason Marquis has pitched 10 years in the majors--all in the National League--and has a career ERA of 4.48. Sorry kids, but that's not going to come close to cutting it in American League, let alone the AL East. You know what hitters on teams like the Yankees and Red Sox are going say when they see he's starting against them, don't you?

"I can't wait to get to the plate for dinner time! When do we eat?"

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/marquja01.shtml?redir

Now back to our regularly scheduled show...

I'm not going to say the post on MLBTR calling the Orioles losers for getting Millwood is not a real source.

I certainly don't think anyone has a crystal ball here and can say with certitude what Kevin Millwood is going to do for the Orioles, be it those sold on the deal, those sour on it or those somewhere in between, so everything is speculation right now, just as it almost always is in thes cases.

Sometimes even the most seeming sure-fire signings can blow up in a club's face, such as the Giants' signing of Barry Zito or the Yankees getting Carl Pavano a few years back. You know, something like this...

http://dailymoaner.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Wile-E-Coyote.jpg

I don't know exactly what article Chris cited, but I'm assuming it's the one on Yahoo! Sports where the writer directly calls the Orioles losers and which was also linked here at MASN (direct link below).

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=sh wintermeetings121009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Actually it's just mention in passing about the O's in a larger "winners and losers" article about the winter meetings by Yahoo! Sports's MLB editor, Steve Henson. He writes:

"This is the same Millwood that Rangers president and Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan scolded a year ago for being out of shape and basically going through the motions. Yes, Millwood responded by losing weight and posting his best numbers since 2005. But whether he will be a model of professionalism to his new teammates is unknown."

Actually, I don't necessarily disagree with Henson up to a point. He's basically reiterating here what MASN's own Steve Melewski posted in an excellent interview with Rangers' broadcaster Josh Lewin right after the trade. Here's part of that exchange, followed by the link:

What was behind his solid 2009 season?
"Essentially he got read I don't want to say the riot act, but he got the letter of the law laid down by (Rangers president) Nolan Ryan. When Nolan talks it's kind of like E.F. Hutton here, pitchers listen. (nice line--K.F.)

"The message he imparted was you have to be out there. Going five innings doesn't work anymore. You're an ace, we're paying you to be an ace. Five innings and being tired and wanting out is not working.

"Get yourself in shape and go deep in games. To Kevin's credit, he did that. He is a competitor who comes from a great pedigree with the Braves organization. You know, he really did what was asked of him, which was to get in very good shape."

When did that talk with Nolan Ryan take place?
"That was at the end of 07. He had a five and a half ERA and was only going five or six innings. Nolan told him 'you're here to set an example for our young guys and make sure our bullpen doesn't get over taxed, that's what we expect....'

"It was kind of a wake up call of sorts. He's a good guy it's not like he needed that talk, just a reminder of what he needed to do."

http://masnsports.com/2009/12/a-rangers-broadcaster-talks-ab.html

The difference between what we see here and with Henson is that Lewin later speaks of the trade as a good one for the O's, saying that "200 innings, 15 wins is very, very reasonable to expect." Even Henson, if you go back and re-read him, isn't flat-out "dissing" the Orioles for the deal, but questioning which Millwood will show up--the in-shape, commited professional or the "five innings and I'm outta here" guy. He uses the word "unknown."

Well, and I think that's a concern that the O's need to address with him, if they haven't already done so. Millwood needs to recall everything that Nolan Ryan said to him and carry it out again in his training this offseason, into spring training and the regular season. If needed, Dave Trembley needs to say to Kevin what he said to Matt Albers about coming to camp in shape. Dave wants to start getting tough? Good, he needs to get tough with his putative ace.

That said, any O's fan who looks with fairness and objectivity at Kevin Millwood's overall statistics (see below) has to concede that he's had a slightly above average major league career. Considering that, there is every reason for optimism.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/millwke01.shtml

Sure a Henson can pull up a negative about him, but looking at Millwood's body of work it makes more sense to come down on the positive side here. (Look, the O's could go out and get Roy Halladay tomorrow--in their dreams, of course--and someone could call them losers for getting him, but logic would tell you that any negatives about Halladay are greatly overshadowed by the pluses. Now, Millwood isn't in Halladay's class, but he's still a good major league starter--a commodity the O's haven't had much of this century!).

Above and beyond Millwood's track record, Brummie, I leave you with one more reason you should feel good about this trade and that's Andy MacPhail's

SIGN BEDARD PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!! FOr get the other fools

NO!!!!!!!!!!!

They want Tillman and matuz to get a full year at AAA,,they have bugs to work out. I'd be fine with Marquis,he's at least a good first half pitcher.That isn't the point,with him Millwood,Guts and bergy we'd have 4 solid 7 inning guys and i think berken will be the 5th starter and hernandez the long reliever and spot starter.Adkins would be a worthwhile gamble at 3rd.

At least the last 4 years maybe longer the O's have ran out of pitching depth at the end of the year. You pad on the front end knowing there's going to be injuries and flameouts.

Roch..Apply for the booth job!

Roch-
Does it every get on your nerves how slow the O's do things? Its like they never attack the market.
The case I am referring too is, I just read the article on the FA list on MLB.com.
They talk about how scouts say Delgado appears to be healthy, and the quote is something like, "if he can return anywhere near his 2008 form, he can be a powerful weapon to have in the middle of someones line-up."
I don't know why the O's always seem content to sift through whats left?
Why not go after him now?
I get waiting on Bedard, just to get the medical stuff right, but they keep waiting on some of these guys and they are all getting signed up.
Poop or get off the pot.
I mean, obviuosly, if someone is good, there are going to be other teams interested. Macphail, to me, is so scared of getting into a bidding war with other teams. Tough tooties, thats the way it is.

RichD calling out the trolls. Love it!

Man some of these posts look like novels. I'm burning out the scroll on my blackberry.

I think Bedard makes sense. That's a logical move, more people love him than hate him. He likes us more than he hates us. Coming back to a place where you are loved can be a great motivator for recovery.

At this point it doesn't make sense to criticize moves that have or haven't been made. If we trade Wigginton for Fielder straight up day before spring training we'll view the off season differently. With a so so free agent market why dump money to overpay someone?

Negative people are going to be negative. More power to them. Hopefully that makes them feel better about themselves.

I really like the acquisition of Millwood.It really gives the rotation a new look. Could this team have a winnig season. There are two other things I would like to see them do. First, acquire a closer. The bullpen (IMO) was strengthened by the Millwood trade because of the moving of deadwood and the impending move of Hernandez to the pen. With Koji, JJ,Kam there already there is a foundation there already. This team will score runs and Trembly will yank starters early. We need a closer. Secondly, sign either Delgado or Thome. Either of these guys would make a great mentor for any of the young first base prospects. Sign them to a two year deal. I would let Wiggy play third till Bell is ready. Andino or Turner could back him up and play late in the game defensively. Honestly Wiggy's stats are right there with anybody available at third.
Millwood's acquisition was good for two reasons. It gives the club the flexibility of moving Hernandez to the pen, and it got rid of some dead wood in Ray. Not to mention that he has played on winning teams before. I would like to see them get a closer and sign either Thome or Delgado to a 2 year deal to mentor the first base prospects. As far as signing a 3rd baseman , I think it wouldn't make sense. Look at wiggy's career averages against anybody else available. His numbers are right there. Back him up with Turner or Andino.
While losing a good pitching prospect in Steve Johnson in the rule 5 draft was a negative , not losing that Abreu kid was a bigger positive. We are lacking in middle of the infield prospects. He is truly underrated.
I think the money that should be spent should be in locking up Jones to a long term deal. Next year the same to Reimold. With last year's long term signing of Markakis set a pattern. It makes no sense to build just to let them go.
With the exception of the Yankees and Red Sox I don't see any other club having the kind of back end potential as the team has with Bergey, Matusz, and Tillman. If we see the maturing of Weiters, Jones, and Reimold into some big numbers this team could win more than they lose!
Between Bell, Waring, Snyderand Hughes they will develop a pair of corner infielders and for 2011 the only offensive liabilty will be at shortstop. This is why if Uggla is available at a cheap price I would grab him, let him DH, and let him play a little shortsop and third to learn.As far as Bedard, he would be great in the pen or when a injury hits in the rotation. He has great stuff but durability issues.

Timothy said:
Roch, O's fans were told "We'll grow the arms and buy the bats!"They needed a legite rotation,not a tryout!The bullpen needs help yet and who is the Big Bat?Who is the 30 plus cleanup hitter they need, and who is the closer?Still early yet, but who are they now eyeing?Roch -On!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Timothy: WHO is the 30-plus cleanup hitter you want them to get? If you're looking at the same free agent market I am, the only POTENTIAL 30 HR guys (I assume when you said 30 plus you meant HRs and not age) are Thome (a DH only) and Delgado (coming off major injury problems). As you said, "still early yet", but you are talking in the same panic tones as many others here. The sky is not falling, Chicken Little.

Brummie_Oriole said:

Roch,

Chris said:

Chris,

First of all, you sound a lot like Jack.

Signing who is cheap?

Chris Ray was cheap. Millwood is not.

David Hernandez is cheap. Millwood is not.

Jason Berken is cheap. Millwood is not.

Get it?

Millwood did not come cheap. You sir, are Jack, but also an idiot.